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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I have a few quick questions on some housekeeping matters to which the Chairman also referred. The Commissioner told us on 4 May that the first she knew about the scandalous financial irregularities at the Garda Síochána was on 27 July 2015. Is that still her position?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: That is still the Commissioner's position.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Things arise as a result of the Commissioner's answers but I might leave that to my colleagues because I want to get through my remaining questions and get them on record. The Commissioner also told us on 4 May that the meeting where she was first told of these issues lasted five minutes and took place over a cup of tea. Is that still her position?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Okay. It was over a cup of tea, it might have been a longer cup of tea but how long was the meeting? What is her position on that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: We are digressing a bit. I am just wondering how long the meeting lasted.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: We could go through a whole day-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: We both know what we are talking about, do we not?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I am just going back to the Commissioner's evidence. I am sorry if I said "five minutes". The Commissioner certainly said "a cup of tea". Cups of tea go cold, so we can deduce that it was not a very lengthy meeting.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: The Commissioner and her colleagues had a cup of tea. For how long did that go on?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Would the Commissioner accept that her response on the previous day led us at least to believe that this was a very short kind of reference to these matters at the end of a day's meeting?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: The Commissioner did not. It was over a cup of tea. Perhaps it is our interpretation of a cup of tea being much longer than it is.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: While we are doing that, I will move on to the next couple of points. Colleagues should be aware that I am nearly finished these few points. I seek answers that will help in terms of asking further questions. When the Commissioner last appeared before the committee, she claimed legal privilege over advice given by Mr. Ruane, head of legal affairs, in his letter of 24 July. Is that still...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Why, in a constitutional democracy, would the Commissioner deny the representatives of the people here an understanding of what she was told about matters so serious?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: It is a right the Commissioner could choose to waive in the interests of the matters at hand and the fact that they are of such public interest. Would she still maintain her right to assert legal privilege?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: That is the Commissioner's right, but in terms of the complexion of these matters and executing that right, does she believe it helps or deducts from the transparency with which these matters are-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I will ask a final question and I can come in again later. In his evidence to the committee, which I alluded to earlier as did the Vice Chairman, the Comptroller and Auditor General said that to "immediately inform the relevant authorities", including his office, was the absolute correct course of action in the circumstances. Does the Commissioner accept that the Comptroller and Auditor...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Does the Commissioner believe that her role and responsibilities as Accounting Officer, and familiarity with that role and responsibilities, has been a work in progress?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: However, they have evolved to the extent that the Commissioner now knows she must tell the Comptroller and Auditor General, internal audit and so on immediately, whereas when it came to the McGee or other reports, it was a case of "Let us throw this around a little bit internally, get more information and when we have enough, we will let them know".

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I am only talking about now.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Who was the Accounting Officer then?

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