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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I would like to know how this operates in Britain. There are numerous websites which show that it is not Klarna that advertises or invites. Klarna is neither inviting nor advertising and, therefore, it is not included under this section. It is the shop that invites and advertises and the shop websites provide a window or gateway to Klarna but it is not Klarna that advertises its products.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: There is a deal between Klarna and the merchant.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: It is the business that invites people to access the Klarna service, not Klarna. When one purchases items online in Topshop or whatever, it is Topshop that advertises that people can buy through Klarna. It is not Klarna itself..

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: No.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: No. The text of this amendment states that "a person", which is Klarna in this case, "has invited, by way of advertisement, consumers to avail of such credit”. I am saying that it is the retail outlets that actually advertise and invite.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: It is just to make sure that there is no scope for somebody to say that they did not invite or advertise their service.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I know the purpose of the amendment, which is exactly as the Minister of State has set out. My point here that we must ensure that the language and text of the amendment is tight enough to ensure that regardless of which entity - the credit provider or the shop - is inviting or advertising, the credit provider is captured under this amendment. That is the concern.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: With respect to the Minister of State, we know all of that. The problem is that if Klarna does not advertise its services, it does not fall under the scope of the Central Bank regulation, under which the Government and all of us want to bring it. It is conditional on advertising and inviting the person to take up the credit. I am going to leave it at this point. A note would be helpful to...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I agree with the amendment; I just want to make sure it is tight enough. I think it is a very positive amendment.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I am definitely not doing it through Klarna. I will discuss that later on. It is not just about what the Minister of State said. There are other issues with Klarna, but we will come to that.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: This is related. Section 11 ensures that the APR provisions apply to credit and hire purchase agreements. The Central Bank may make regulations to amend the method of calculation. Later, we will deal with the fact that APR is capped at 23% for these services, which I support. At least it is being brought into line with other services. Going back to the example of Klarna, it offers...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: So, there is no limit on interest that can be charged when a customer misses a payment?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: That takes me to an amendment that I will move later. This is a major issue in terms of how people are going to access credit and the heavy penalties that will not be captured under this legislation, which is consumer protection legislation. It is good that we are regulating them, but there is a big issue on which I have an amendment later that I ask the Minister of State to support. I...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: How will the Central Bank obtain the PPS numbers of individuals who are on the central credit register?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: If a person is buying a car, for example, will it now be required for a PPS number to be provided to the Central Bank to go on the central credit register? Is that correct? What about the loans of existing customers? Is this just a provision for future loans or will there be a bulk transfer of PPS numbers to the Central Bank?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The information is provided to the financial institution or credit provider when a person is taking out a loan, but it is not provided to the Central Bank. This is a new system for the provision of the information. Will there be a bulk request for the PPS numbers of all the existing loans or will it just happen going forward?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate that. It is an amendment. It was not part of the legislation. It was not discussed and it is quite technical. If I go to buy a car through a PCP tomorrow morning and I provide my PPS number to whoever I am buying the car from, that is now going to be provided to the Central Bank. What will the Central Bank do with my PPS number? Will it contact the Department of Social...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Until now the Central Bank cannot get access to PPS numbers because, under law, it is not included in Schedule 5 of the Social Welfare Consolidation Act. That will now change with this amendment. I am curious about what they are going to do. The Minister of State, Deputy Fleming, said that they are going to check the PPS. Is that what is going to happen, for example, if I go to buy a car?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Retail Credit and Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (23 Feb 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Did they have access to PPS numbers?

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