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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Allied Irish Banks (21 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: It not only applies AIB but the other banks have been open to taking such individual cases and whether they worked out, at least the bank makes its staff available to deal with those issues, which is a good as part of the resolution process. The witnesses will be pleased to hear that that brings us to the end of the meeting. They can thank Mr. Juncker.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: We are dealing with item No. 6, which is matters relating to the banking sector. I welcome Mr. Paul Stanley, Mr. Eddie Cullen and Mr. Ciarán Coyle to the meeting, along with their colleagues. I will read out the privilege note and then ask Mr. Stanley to give his opening statement. I advise the witnesses that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: Rather than allow this to continue through the meeting, I want to draw Mr. Stanley's attention to the fact that despite what he says about the tracker mortgages and how Ulster Bank is dealing with them, we have substantial correspondence indicating that customers have not been dealt with. I ask members to review their files, wherein they should have this correspondence. Customers must...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: I remind Senator Horkan that we are working against the clock.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: I ask the Senator to move on.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: I ask Mr. Stanley to send it to the committee in order that we can-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: I wish to go back over a number of points raised by Senator Kieran O'Donnell and others. Mr. Stanley has explained the position of the bank on these issues and has apologised, which I acknowledge. However, the people affected by all of this are customers of Ulster Bank. There seems to be a culture within the bank to disregard customers to a certain extent, which continues to this day. I...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: When questions are asked here about individual cases or samples of cases, they are asked in the context of the bank being wrong. Customers want to feel that Ulster Bank is righting the wrong done to them but that does not come across in correspondence. Mr. Stanley may be tired of dealing with this-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: -----but I am going to raise it anyway. In his opening remarks, Mr. Stanley said that in the context of the resolution of these issues that it is essential for customers to build trust with the bank. However, a sample of emails that I received since the last time Mr. Stanley was before us paints a different picture. Ulster Bank customers are telling the bank that its helpline is helpless...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: Why would someone not have heard from the bank after 11 months? Why are there huge gaps in time in the bank delivering an appropriate level of customer service to the affected party? Why are phone calls not being returned?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: I was in business and I know the importance of ringing customers and keeping them informed. When I see these, I wonder how the bank is in business. How can an entity as big as Ulster Bank remain in business? I listened to Mr. Coyle giving his piece in a sincere way, but the facts do not bear it out.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: I am, but I am still making the overall point. For example, Mr. Stanley talked about phone calls - not one. In this particular case despite 15 letters and 20 phone calls to the helpline, the last letter received was on 10 October 2017 stating the bank was unable to give a timeline for compensation. Surely they must jump out of the system if Mr. Stanley is on top of his business.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: So they will just have to continue to wait.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: Mr. Stanley told us that he had spoken to Padraic Kissane or that he had been on about the First Active tracker loan. Is there not one in that cohort who has been impacted?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: In the context of the conversation with Padraic Kissane, who has appeared before the committee a number of times, does Mr. Stanley not accept any of the argument he puts forward on these cases?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: Even though he would point out-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: -----that by fixing the interest rate on a loan, the customer will lose the right to go back to a tracker, in order to transfer the transfer the tracker mortgage product and so on and it is referred to as tracker mortgage, all of this goes on, the bank has still-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: Let me put down a marker on this. I would like Mr. Stanley to provide an explanation related to what we can call the First Active cohort. Relative to the case being made by Padraic Kissane, in general terms, and Mr. Stanley's explanation as to why that cohort given their introduction through First Active and how they were set up, the contracts and so on, I ask Mr. Stanley to give us the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: I would be grateful if he could do that for us.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Ulster Bank (19 Jun 2018)

John McGuinness: I turn to the bank's sale. Mr. Stanley has said there are 3,600 PDH loans for sale and then buy-to-let mortgages. I was struck about his comment about moral hazard. I did not think any banker ever used the word "moral". It baffles me as to how he can say that and at the same time sell these loans to vulture funds which have absolutely no regard for the rights of the individual. I want to...