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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: That is all it does.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: With regard to non-disclosure, how does that work?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: In the Vicky Phelan case was indemnity obtained?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: The reason she went to court was because she refused to deal with the laboratory in terms of the confidentiality clause.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: That was a question I did have. Is the indemnity for the false negative or does it also include the HSE not informing people of the false negative?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: The people taking the cases are just taking the cases for the false negative and they are not taking any case on the fact they were never told.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: But could they?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: If the Health Service Executive, HSE, was aware, therefore, a person who was not told by it could be in a position to make a claim against the State for non-disclosure. Is Mr. Breen aware whether the HSE knew Clinical Pathology Laboratories, CPL, or whatever laboratories were involved knew at some point that the results were false negatives? When did they tell the HSE, or did they ever tell...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: So the HSE knew but failed to tell patients.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: As manager of the State Claims Agency, is Mr. Breen aware whether the indemnity does or does not cover the non-disclosure? Clearly, anyone who got a false result and then became aware that they were not told about it would be entitled to make a claim against the State for not being told about it when the HSE was aware of it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: In the case of Vicky Phelan, Mr. Breen mentioned earlier that the argument is that the clinical outcome was not affected by not knowing about it but what is the position regarding the other nine cases?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: Other than not knowing about it, the mental anxiety and so on.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: These women thought they were in the clear when they were not in the clear. In terms of the clinical outcome in terms of the path of the disease and so on-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: -----they are not claiming that. However, if a woman gets a result back from the HSE CervicalCheck stating that she is fine and she is not fine, I believe most people would feel that they were hard done by in terms of being told something that was not the case. Even if the clinical outcome in the end was not different, perhaps it could have managed everything differently.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: Even when the HSE became aware of the results of these tests, put them on their files and in at least some cases in the patient records, the State Claims Agency, on behalf of the HSE and the State, is saying the State can walk away and that it has no liability to these people for failing to tell them the false results of a test when they became aware of those false results. I appreciate the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: We have at least teased out that point. I have a couple of brief questions. Mr. Breen said 98% of the agency's cases do not go to court but clearly some of those are dismissed or rejected at an early point in time. Of the total number, do we have a breakdown of how many go to mediation?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: Is that the same as withdrawn?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: Is 2017 a typical year?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: There are similar statistics for every year.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: State Claims Agency: Discussion (8 May 2018)

Gerry Horkan: I am sorry, Chairman, but I have been asked to ask one question. I was on a health forum as a local authority member before I became a Member and I recall hearing all about Pandemrix and narcolepsy. I am told that approximately 80 or 90 cases are still in the system. They have been dragged through the system for a long time. What is the position with those cases?

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