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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I have no problem with the Minister of State articulating the Department's view on this Bill. Indeed, I look forward to hearing it. My query was just on the procedure in terms of a Private Members' Bill before committee. Is the sponsor entitled, as the Minister or Minister of State is, as a member, to have officials present?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I know. I was just about to finish if the Vice Chair would let me.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I know the Vice Chair is not feeling too great but just please try not to take it out on me. As I-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: As I said, I am delighted, if I can say my cúpla focail, that we are here on Committee Stage and that the members of the committee have provided quite ample time since 2020 to go through a very lengthy pre-legislative scrutiny process in terms of this Bill. This Bill was published back in 2018. It is an ambition of my party's and mine that the excessive charges that are being applied...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 1: In page 3, between lines 7 and 8, to insert the following: “Amendment of section 93 of Consumer Credit Act 1995 1. Section 93 of the Consumer Credit Act 1995 is amended, in subsection (10), by the substitution of the following paragraph for paragraph (g): “(g) in the Bank’s opinion, the cost of credit is usurious, excessively high or any of...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister of State has spoken to amendment No. 3 so I will make the following point. If the Government was willing to work with me as the sponsor of this legislation over the past four years, there would have been a different approach. A contracts Bill was passed unanimously by the Houses of the Oireachtas and I was a sponsor of that, and there was also legislation relating to the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: That sums up the Government's approach, which was not to do anything because there was another hundred licensed moneylenders in the market. Many of them are unique and catalogue operators and not lenders that provide loans to cover the communion or birthday party costs. I am glad the officials are starting to brief the Minister of State on this big issue. The Government did not do anything...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: It is not in the legislation.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I thank Deputy Jim O'Callaghan for his contribution which focused on the definition of the amendment which contains the term "usurious". He rightly pointed out that subsection (2) deals with that issue and defines it as the rates, the simple interest rate or the nominal interest rate. He made the point then that there is the second step which has different rates and has the term "no later...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Does the Minister of State know the answer to that question? That is the core of it.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister of State does not know. He is waiting for his officials to hand him a piece of paper to let him know.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: What is the answer to €1,000 over 12 months? What will his legislation do in terms of the interest?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister of State got that from his officials.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: It will be €1,560.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: However, the Minister of State is legislating for a moneylender to charge €1,560 for €1,000 of credit. That is €560 of interest when a credit union charges €60 interest. In fairness, that is not what is required here. It is €560 of interest for a moneylender when a credit union charges €60. That is the fundamental difference.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Some €560.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Is the Minister of State serious? He is going to vote down every word in this Bill bar the Title of it.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister of State is going to vote down all the amendments that flowed out of a period of two years of consultation with the stakeholders.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 2: In page 3, between lines 12 and 13, to insert the following: “Amendment of section 102 of Consumer Credit Act 1995 2. Section 102 of the Consumer Credit Act 1995 is amended by the substitution of the following subsection for subsection (1): “(1) A moneylender shall not make or attempt to make an agreement with a borrower who has borrowed or...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (9 Mar 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 3: In page 3, between lines 12 and 13, to insert the following: “Amendment of section 103 of Consumer credit Act 1995 2.The Consumer Credit Act 1995 is amended by the substitution of the following section for section 103: “Restriction on Interest Rates and Total Cost of Credit on Credit made available by means of Moneylending Agreements 103.(1) For...

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