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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Did that action concern the correspondence in which it is suggested that he might be investigated in the context of the Official Secrets Act?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Obviously then, he has taken that very badly. Was Ms Feehily aware that he had looked for that correspondence consistently?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: He asked for it to be released under FOI and received a highly redacted version of it. That is just one of the truly bizarre and unacceptable episodes of which the committee has become aware. Ms Feehily said that she had a conversation with the head of audit in July 2016. Was that the chair of the audit committee as opposed to the internal auditor?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: That would have been Mr. Howard then.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: He subsequently left that position. How would the witness describe her working relationship with him? Would she describe it as good, constructive?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: I am moving this along because we are very limited on time. Would Ms Feehily have met and spoken with Mr. Howard regularly?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Did Mr. Howard make the witness aware of the deep concerns he had regarding the frustration of the internal auditor's work?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Can Ms Feehily recall when he made her privy to that information?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: That is right. His father.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Having seen the correspondence that Mr. Howard wrote to the serving Garda Commissioner, Ms Feehily is obviously aware-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Ms Feehily had no knowledge of this letter then.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: He had asked that remarks or allegations made impugning the reputation of the internal auditor either be withdrawn by the head of finance, Mr. Culhane, or that a superior authority intervene to overturn them. We questioned the Commissioner at length on this today. She told us that her response was to seek legal advice. We await further clarification on those matters. Can I ask Ms Feehily...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: That was-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: That is very wise. Mr. Ruane, the head of legal affairs, advised the Commissioner to make a section 41 disclosure on this entire debacle. She did not do that. I want to ask Mr. Waters two questions. First, should the Commissioner have done that in accordance with the 2005 Act? A simple "Yes" or "No" will suffice. Second, how is such a disclosure made?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Is there any other way to make such a disclosure?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Mr. Waters is clearly an experienced civil servant. Is it standard practice, in his experience, that a disclosure is made in writing? That would strike me as the way to make it but I am just checking.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: For the purposes of the record, I want it noted that the Commissioner insinuated that there are myriad ways in which such a disclosure can be made. I thought that sounded rather odd but let the record reflect what was said. With the benefit of having some sight of this mess, this absolute chaotic, shambolic mess that has undoubtedly brought reputational damage to An Garda Síochána...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: -----ought a section 41 disclosure have been made?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: I do not want to hear that; I want the witness to answer my question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: I thank Mr. Waters for his answer. I just want to say that I am alarmed that this is the manner of his work. I am alarmed that this is the mentality and the approach within the Department of Justice and Equality. We are looking at a big, shambolic mess. The interim report that Mr. Waters now accepts is not about unorthodox practices. It states, categorically and clearly, that there were...

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