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Leaders' Questions (1 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Yesterday, the Committee of Public Accounts witnessed the toxic shambles that is senior Garda management. As we watched that theatre unfold, word came through of a shooting on Dorset Street in Dublin's north inner city, which claimed the life of a man. This ruthless murder was another shocking incident in broad daylight at the heart of a community caught in the grip of a criminal feud that...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Do the witnesses wish to take a break before I commence my questions?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: I welcome all the witnesses to today's meeting. How long has Mr. Howard held his position on the audit committee, of which he is the chairman?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Can the witness give me the relevant dates? When did he commence his duties?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: The witness commenced in April 2014. When did he stand down?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: 2017?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Can the witness remind the committee of the date of his meeting with Mr. Barrett?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Was he very alarmed by what Mr. Barrett told him?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Mr. Barrett, on a previous occasion on which he appeared before this committee, said that he met the witness and then did not hear another word from him. The witness has given evidence today that that was because the witness considered as an entity-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: That is fair enough. How would Mr. Howard describe his personal relationship with the Commissioner?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: The witness knows the Commissioner well. Would he describe their relationship as close?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Did the witness raise this issue in the course of his meeting with Mr. Barrett?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: I think he did because the committee has a memo to file from Friday 22 July 2016. I am referring to the work of Mr. Barrett. The memo to file highlights Mr. Howard's deep respect for the Commissioner and his close personal relationship with her. It also reflects his instinct, as a lifelong civil servant, to avoid matters which could give rise to embarrassment and controversy and being...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: This is not about the witness's personality, it is about his discharge of a public function.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: I am trying to ascertain if Mr. Howard shares the recollection. Mr. Barrett took the trouble to commit these matters to paper. I want to check that he is not wildly------

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: If the witness could do so briefly.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: We will come to that in a moment. I thank the witness for that new information. Did the witness have a meeting with the Commissioner in the aftermath of his meeting with Mr. Barrett?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Did he raise with the Commissioner the issues that Mr. Barrett had raised with him?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: The witness met with Mr. Barrett and was deeply concerned.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(31 May 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Mr. Howard then met with the Commissioner and Mr. Barrett did not hear from you again.

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