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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2020: Housing Agency
Financial Statements 2021: Approved Housing Bodies Regulatory Authority
Chapter 7: Housing Agency Revolving Acquisition Fund
Section 2 Report – Unauthorised Release of Funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer
(19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: And they can hold on to the cash.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2020: Housing Agency
Financial Statements 2021: Approved Housing Bodies Regulatory Authority
Chapter 7: Housing Agency Revolving Acquisition Fund
Section 2 Report – Unauthorised Release of Funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer
(19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: In terms of their constitution. They draw up their constitution like any other legal entity, normally in consultation with a solicitor. That is the way it would work.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2020: Housing Agency
Financial Statements 2021: Approved Housing Bodies Regulatory Authority
Chapter 7: Housing Agency Revolving Acquisition Fund
Section 2 Report – Unauthorised Release of Funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer
(19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: We are talking about 50,000 houses.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2020: Housing Agency
Financial Statements 2021: Approved Housing Bodies Regulatory Authority
Chapter 7: Housing Agency Revolving Acquisition Fund
Section 2 Report – Unauthorised Release of Funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer
(19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: I will let the Deputy come in later. After the 25-year period, AHBs can set the rent themselves, bring in a private company to manage them and ignore the local authority as to allocations. They do not have to go on the basis of housing need. Some of these have never gone on such a basis. I will not say "never" but the practice has not been to consult or take nominations from the local...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2020: Housing Agency
Financial Statements 2021: Approved Housing Bodies Regulatory Authority
Chapter 7: Housing Agency Revolving Acquisition Fund
Section 2 Report – Unauthorised Release of Funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer
(19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: I will clarify that point. I said this at the start. I acknowledge the good work the sector is doing, but we have left a way open, in the design of these five schemes, such that most of these houses can end up in a situation, when they are out of mortgage and the finance is discharged on them, where the State has no control, loses the asset, and tenants have no control over rent. It...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2020: Housing Agency
Financial Statements 2021: Approved Housing Bodies Regulatory Authority
Chapter 7: Housing Agency Revolving Acquisition Fund
Section 2 Report – Unauthorised Release of Funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer
(19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: The gap is as wide as the barn door. That is how wide the gap is. I accept most bodies will continue to work with the State, particularly if they continue to roll out projects, because they have to play ball with the Department but they could also tell the Department to get lost. They can tell everyone to get lost - the Committee of Public Accounts, Mr. Jordan, the Minister, the Taoiseach,...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2020: Housing Agency
Financial Statements 2021: Approved Housing Bodies Regulatory Authority
Chapter 7: Housing Agency Revolving Acquisition Fund
Section 2 Report – Unauthorised Release of Funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer
(19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: Tell me why it is not the case. I have asked the question a few times. You explain to me why it is not.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2020: Housing Agency
Financial Statements 2021: Approved Housing Bodies Regulatory Authority
Chapter 7: Housing Agency Revolving Acquisition Fund
Section 2 Report – Unauthorised Release of Funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer
(19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: I was concerned before 9 a.m. I have become more concerned since. I acknowledge the Department has to deal with it as it is, the design and all that, but this is a very serious matter that needs swift attention.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2020: Housing Agency
Financial Statements 2021: Approved Housing Bodies Regulatory Authority
Chapter 7: Housing Agency Revolving Acquisition Fund
Section 2 Report – Unauthorised Release of Funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer
(19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: Unfortunately, in this country we deal with an awful lot of short-termism. That is what I call it. There is a challenge for everyone here. There is a challenge for us and a challenge for the witnesses. Mr. Baneham, you wanted to conclude.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2020: Housing Agency
Financial Statements 2021: Approved Housing Bodies Regulatory Authority
Chapter 7: Housing Agency Revolving Acquisition Fund
Section 2 Report – Unauthorised Release of Funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer
(19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: Will you outline that briefly again, Mr. Baneham? Are you talking about housing units that have come out of the end of the financing period?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2020: Housing Agency
Financial Statements 2021: Approved Housing Bodies Regulatory Authority
Chapter 7: Housing Agency Revolving Acquisition Fund
Section 2 Report – Unauthorised Release of Funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer
(19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: What if the land is in the ownership of the AHB, which would be the case-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2020: Housing Agency
Financial Statements 2021: Approved Housing Bodies Regulatory Authority
Chapter 7: Housing Agency Revolving Acquisition Fund
Section 2 Report – Unauthorised Release of Funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer
(19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: To clarify, though, with the CAF scheme, Mr. Baneham-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2020: Housing Agency
Financial Statements 2021: Approved Housing Bodies Regulatory Authority
Chapter 7: Housing Agency Revolving Acquisition Fund
Section 2 Report – Unauthorised Release of Funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer
(19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: Yes, so it is the approved housing body that owns the land. There is no legal lien in terms of freehold or leasehold on the land. That is-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2020: Housing Agency
Financial Statements 2021: Approved Housing Bodies Regulatory Authority
Chapter 7: Housing Agency Revolving Acquisition Fund
Section 2 Report – Unauthorised Release of Funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer
(19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: We are after dealing with a lot of stuff. It is a big challenge for everyone. I know there is a lot of questioning and scrutiny of the issues, and it is a challenge for the agency, the regulator, the Department and us as public representatives. I thank the witnesses and the staff from the agency and the regulatory body - we wish them well on this - and the Department of Housing, Local...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: The business this afternoon is minutes, accounts and financial statements, correspondence, work programme, the Comptroller and Auditor General's section 2 report, and any other business. We will then go briefly into private session before adjourning until next Thursday, 26 January. The minutes of our meeting on 15 December have been circulated. Do members wish to raise matters about...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: That compares with University College Dublin-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: I thank Mr. McCarthy for that report. In regard to the Beaumont Hospital audit, obviously it is not just one issue. There is a range of issues there. As a committee we should correspond with it to find out what it has done to address the four issues. On the governance issue, does it have a permanent chair now? How soon will it have a permanent chair? On the failure of the board to...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: That is one point that has been addressed. We could ask what it is doing in regard to the other three points. Hopefully the new chairperson will oversee some of this. Does any other member wish to come in?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: We will request to know the steps that have been taken to safeguard and ensure that, from Beaumont Hospital's point of view, these matters are being addressed effectively and that measures are in place to ensure they are compliant. Does anybody want to raise any of the other financial statements?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Jan 2023)

Brian Stanley: Could the Department wind up owning part of this after 2024, if it is converted into equity?

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