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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: That is fine with regard to the €61 million but not the €200 million.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: I am going to come back to the €200 million because I do not agree with what the Minister said. On a number of occasions now, I have asked Mr. Breslin for the briefing note given to the Minister on 27 August. He said he would give it to us. This is the third time I have asked for it. Can he ask one of his officials now to get it and send it to members of this committee before we...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: That is fine, but this is my third time asking for it and the third meeting at which I have done so.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: Mr. Breslin has not done it to date. I have asked for it numerous times.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: It should have happened. I know I keep saying that. I have already asked for the correspondence. If I have to table a parliamentary question, it will be put off for weeks upon weeks. I have had to fight for information. Through the Chair and with the members' agreement, I ask for the correspondence between the Department of Health and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: Some of us ask pertinent parliamentary questions and that is another way to get information. I have pointed out to the Minister and Secretary General that sometimes, one must follow up parliamentary questions to get documentation. I agree with the Chairman that it does seem bizarre. I have asked for the memo that went to the Minister in August on at least three occasions now. I do not...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: Mr. Woods is on both of them, so-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: Yes, I have them all here.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: Yes, I have all the dates for them too.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: Three or four minutes ago I asked Mr. Woods when he sensed, in either of his roles, that there was a change from the figure of €61 million to a higher figure.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: Even though Mr. Woods was coming here today?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: Perhaps Mr. Sullivan could tell us. I will ask him exactly the same question. I see he took over as chairman of the steering group after the April meeting. He took over in May. When did he become aware of the change from the €61 million figure, which we have accepted, to anything higher than that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: Fine. That was April. I have the minutes here.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: Is this the meeting at which Mr. John Pollock flagged pricing discrepancies between-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: Fine.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: Fair enough. Mr. Woods sat in on the meeting to which Mr. Sullivan has referred. I presume Mr. Sullivan is saying that this was being flagged in April. Mr. Woods does not feel it was being flagged in April at all.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: What is the difference between noise in the system and the issue being flagged?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: Hold on a second. I was very clear. I did not ask Mr. Sullivan to know whether it was €200 million or another figure. I just asked both Mr. Sullivan and Mr. Woods the same question. The figure of €61 million is parked. We now know that in August the figure was €200 million and in November it was €450 million. What we are trying to figure out is the timeline...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Alan Kelly: Yes. There was an awareness.

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