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Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I move amendment No. 39: In page 10, line 15, to delete “subsection (1)(b)” and substitute “subsection (1)(a)”.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I move amendment No. 42: In page 10, line 25, to delete “subsection (1)(b)” and substitute “subsection (1)(a)”.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: Sorry, that is why I clarified what I said a moment ago. In the case of a pregnancy that is at a gestational age where a viable baby is possible, she has no right to terminate the baby's life. I want to clarify that in case I caused confusion with my answer to Deputy Ó Cuív. The diagnostic test is whether or not she is suicidal and the only treatment is termination to avert that...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: No. I did not say that at all. Can I deal with the last question?

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: Okay.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I shall deal with Deputy Ó Cuív's contribution first. He has misunderstood the Bill somewhat. The Bill is to clarify existing law. I wish to clearly say that all that he elucidated regarding the complications of prematurity can occur as the law stands. All that we are doing with the legislation is bringing clarity to it for the doctors who have to provide it, the nurses and for...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: This is the problem caused by the Doppler effect of sound. Is that not correct, Deputy? On a serious note, the guidelines are under consideration and are being formulated as we speak. The process is in train and they will be made available as soon as possible. I cannot give the Deputy any more of an update.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: Absolutely.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: Gabh mo leithscéal. Ba maith liom cúpla focal a rá.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I ask the Minister of State to answer Deputy Michelle Mulherin's suggestion of a post-certification process in order that all papers are correct.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: Let me give the full answer and I will work my way back to Deputy Seán Conlon's question because he has raised a very important point. What I surmised from Deputy Denis Naughten's question was that in the absence of any underlying psychiatric illness - this would take some time to assess and ascertain - and the risk of suicide was serious - it was real and substantial - and the only...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I do, and I will answer again with a monosyllabic "No".

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: The Minister of State wishes to discuss the guardian ad litem issue.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: While I do not profess to be in any way legal, I do know that the tenet of what the Attorney General has told us is that the Delaware case was related to people in a commercial relationship and that this is about the unborn in a very different type of relationship. I can come back with more comprehensive information on the issue at a later date, in fairness to Deputy Michelle Mulherin. ...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I apologise to the committee. That little bit slipped by me with regard to a woman refusing treatment. A doctor cannot certify if a woman refuses treatment. I thank the Deputy for catching this. I re-emphasise what I stated earlier today and yesterday. A doctor cannot certify and the test for certification cannot be met if, in his or her view, the woman has not availed of other...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I did not.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I will answer these questions now as they are very salient. In an instance where there is no mental illness - bear in mind that this is a clinical assessment which will take some time to form - the Deputy has asked what will happen if the suicidal ideation remains and the risk of suicide is high and real. The pregnancy will be terminated if it is the only way to avert the risk. The risk...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: If the Deputy's question is that suicidal ideation is only an issue as a consequence of a child being born, clearly it is not possible for a doctor to certify in such circumstances. It cannot be.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: Yes, it has to be the pregnancy. The Deputy also contends that the Taoiseach has stated this will not lead to a change in practice. This must be taken in the round. I presume we all accept that what we are trying to do - we have stated it time and again - is have clarity for the women of this country as to what is legally available and how to access it and to have clarity for the...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: Deputy Ó Cuív spoke about the amendments I might table on Report Stage and asked whether I could enlarge on them. I cannot at this point. Deputy Timmins spoke about implementation of the legislation, conscientious objection and the comments by the master of the Rotunda. The reality is I met the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists and that is not its view. I respect...

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