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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: -----raises a flag for me, in respect of being denied access to information where reports have been carried out. The non-publication of the reports creates a degree of inquiry. I do not find it at all satisfactory that we are in this position. One of these reports was produced in 2020, while the other might date from 2021.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Okay. Moving on to Thornton Hall, the new valuation for the site is €6.2 million. The Comptroller and Auditor General has drawn attention to the valuation of €2.7 million. In this context, there is the land itself, but also the significant development of a road and lighting at the site, which means it is now fully serviced. That is my understanding. Can Ms McPhillips...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Who did that valuation?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Is that paperwork available in that regard?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: The value of a site is often determined by what it can be used for-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: -----and how it is zoned, etc. This site's purpose has changed from that originally envisaged. Can Ms McPhillips give us an idea of what engagement was undertaken in this respect? Has there been interest in the site? Is the Prison Service likely to use it? Has interest been shown in the site by other State agencies? Has the Land Development Agency, LDA, for example, been in contact? Is...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: How many acres are there overall?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Another point is that there is a building on the site.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I understand it is a listed building.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: In such cases, the protection offered usually extends to the curtilage of the site. Is that limited to a particular portion of the land around the house or is it more extensive?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Much discussion over the years has focused on the Department of Justice. A transformation programme was overseen by Ernst and Young, EY. A report was done. Is that company still involved? Are there ongoing running costs in respect of the transformation programme? Is it complete? Has it been evaluated?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Are consultants being used in that endeavour or is it based in-house in the Department?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I also asked if there has been a follow-on valuation?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I ask the Chair to put me on the list to come back in later for more questions.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: This is linked. The ODCE was to be replaced by the Corporate Enforcement Agency. The expectation was that would happen in January. My understanding is that there was an error in the legislation as well as an issue around the provision of gardaí and that there was a memorandum of understanding, MOU. What role did the Department have in the MOU? Has it been signed at this stage? When...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: There would have been a role in regard to the Garda Síochána. Does Ms McPhillips's Department not have a role in regard to that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Over the years I have heard words like "imminent" and "expected soon". I think that is tomorrow. That is my interpretation of it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: To be honest, corporate enforcement is either important or it is not.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Essentially, the number of gardaí is relatively small in the context of a very big area. Deputy Carroll MacNeill talked about the legislation. Legislation is one thing while the actual delivery of the terms of that legislation is another. This agency cannot do its work. It has been frustrated in doing its work because it has not had the gardaí. I am really trying to find out...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice
Vote 21 - Prisons
(28 Apr 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Okay. On the Hamilton report, is there a wall-planner in terms of the roll-out? For example, the Hamilton report identified a number of significant shortcomings with agency resources. It was not only personnel. Some of it was IT and technology. Are we going to see a plan of action?

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