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Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I thank the Chairman and the committee for the courtesy shown and the tenor of the debate. I thank the Chairman, in particular, for his stewardship of it throughout the entire course of what have been extremely long discussions. These are probably some of the longest discussions on a particular piece of legislation and with good reason because it affects everybody in the country one way or...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: The amendment proposed by Deputy Healy and commented on by Deputy Boyd Barrett seeks the insertion of a new section 24 to the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill and essentially it aims to require a court to take certain factors into account as aggravating factors when sentencing a person convicted of certain existing offences under the Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act 1997....

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: In mid sentence.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: This area is fraught and I understand what people have said and I accept their concerns. It is, as people have pointed out, the only place where we actually refer to intentionally destroying unborn human life. That phrase is not used anywhere else in this Bill. The issue of avoidance of doubt was to not have any chilling effect from the point of view of doctors, which Deputy Boyd Barrett...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: Correct.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I will respond to some of the points raised by Deputy Keaveney in the interest of accuracy. We did not arrive at a period of six months as a penalty. That is already provided for in the law. The Department of Justice and Equality is responsible for the proposal of 14 years and can explain the rationale behind it. Deputy O'Donnell asked about the legal basis of this provision. I can ask...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I would have thought it related to the original Act, which provided for penal servitude for life. In modern terms that is 14 years. I do not think the Minister for Justice and Equality could be accused of being ultra-conservative in these matters. Deputy Conway referred to a lacuna in the law. It is not for this Bill to fix such lacunae but it would be a very different matter if the...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: Following a certification, or before a certification?

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: As one would expect from a barrister, Deputy Michael McNamara's contribution was helpful. The reality is that the law is the law and we have to take the legal advice of the highest law officer, the Attorney General. The discretion is there for the Director of Public Prosecutions and the courts. While they have wisdom and knowledge of the law, they also have compassion. I do not believe...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: The amendments seek to remove the criminal sanction for a woman who unlawfully undergoes a termination of pregnancy. While I understand the Deputies' concern in this regard, it should be noted that, as it stands, a woman may be prosecuted for non-lawful abortion under the provisions of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 which states any such woman shall be liable to be "kept in penal...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: In the instance to which Deputy Naughten referred, the hospital has to make arrangements that the woman is looked after and the service is delivered. I do not think we can get into being prescriptive in this Bill about how interviews are held in hospitals and how staff are recruited. We would be straying into a very dangerous area in employment law and everything else. I certainly do not...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I am very pleased to inform the Deputy that as a consequence of the recently published report accepted by the Government on the formation of hospital groups, the scenario described will not pertain because within the groups there will be people who will have an obligation to travel to the hospital to perform those procedures and deliver those services if those normally present in a hospital...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I move amendment No. 81: In page 15, line 8, to delete “may” and substitute “shall”.This amendment is solely aimed at amending the section to mirror the provisions made under the reporting system in section 20.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I move amendment No. 83: In page 16, to delete lines 3 to 5 and substitute the following:“(b) whether the medical procedure was carried out in respect of the pregnant woman pursuant to a section 7 certification, section 8 certification (whether made before or after the medical procedure was carried out) or section 9 certification and the Medical Council registration number attached to...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I move amendment No. 84: In page 16, line 14, to delete “year” and substitute the following:“year, and shall, as soon as may be after preparing the report, cause copies of the report to be laid before each House of the Oireachtas”.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I move amendment No. 85: In page 16, to delete lines 15 to 20 and substitute the following:“(5) The Minister shall arrange for a report laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas in accordance with subsection (1) to be published in such form and manner as he or she thinks appropriate as soon as practicable after copies of the report are so laid. (6) In preparing a report under this...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I move amendment No. 86: In page 16, line 21, to delete “a part” and substitute “or a part”.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I applaud the sentiment behind this amendment. It has been deemed out of order because of the consequences for the Exchequer but I hope that the Deputy will be reassured to know that women in Ireland are entitled to appropriate and comprehensive post-abortion care. Medical practitioners in Ireland have a duty to provide care, support and follow-up services for women who have an abortion...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: I accept the Deputy's suggestion and I will mention it on Report Stage. We should take every opportunity during the course of the debate on the Bill to emphasise the services that are there for people who may not be aware of them and who are possibly traumatised.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

James Reilly: That is a critically important point. It is well-made and well-intentioned but the obligation is absolutely on the individual, not on the institution. In some instances this individual could be a sole practitioner in general practice.

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