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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: Time, Deputy Wallace.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: Does Mr. Howard wish to answer?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: I thank Mr. Howard and Deputy Wallace. I call Deputy Jan O'Sullivan.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: I thank Deputy O'Sullivan. In Mr. Howard's opening statement, he said that regarding Carillion, the main priority now is to resolve the operational issues and ensure that the relevant schools are brought into operation as soon as possible. How does the Department propose to do that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: Mr. Howard refers to the public interest also. There is an interest of Irish society in this. The State is not just something that is abstract, out there; we are the State. It is in the interests of the State that the subcontractors be paid in order that they keep their businesses open and keep people employed. Whether it is urban or rural Ireland, employment is absolutely necessary....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: Can Mr. Corrigan assure the subcontractors, who did all of the work and should certify it, that the NDFA will seek the original certification only from them and from no one else?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: Is the NDFA going elsewhere?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: Who is going elsewhere then?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: Is Mr. Corrigan referring to the subcontractors who did the work or someone further up the food chain?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: The NDFA will not bypass them.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: In that case, the NDFA will bypass them. The NDFA can do one of two things, it can either bypass the subcontractors or not bypass them. If the subcontractors are not bypassed, they will be involved. If the witnesses have some other notion in their heads, the subcontractors will not be involved. It is as clear as that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: That is the problem.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: I ask the witnesses to respond to the other issues I raised.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: What has been paid?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: To whom was that paid?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: Is that Inspired Spaces?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: The NDFA has not paid anything.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: The NDFA holds all the aces.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: The NDFA holds all the aces because it has not paid anyone. Maybe we can circle the wagons on that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

John McGuinness: No, it does not because the company has gone bust.

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