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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: That is fine. I want to cover the area of the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, IBRC. The amalgamation of Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide was the biggest liquidation in the history of the State and we are still talking about it all these years later. On the remaining assets, the briefing document informed us that in July 2021 the loan portfolio was €3.4 billion. Has anything...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Are assets in Russia included in that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: You made assumptions. In essence, if I remember rightly, €36 billion was lent out, or €35 billion if it is amalgamated-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: They were less than-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: The loans were less than the amount raised in the promissory notes and subsequently paid off. Has that payment been completed?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Yet some of these are subject to legal proceedings and that is obviously an unknown quantity. Is that right?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: In the briefing document we see there are a number of legal proceedings. There are 12 that are-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: There are 17 that IBRC is a defendant in and 12 relate to recovery.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: A very large amount of money, €235 million, has been incurred in legal fees. There was always an expectation that the outworking of this was going to be costly. Is there an adjustment on that in the context of the progress that was made? The up-to-date figure is from 3 March this year. It would be very useful to go into private session if the officials will not or cannot answer in...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Okay. On electric vehicles and hybrids, we were told last week in a reply from the Department of Finance that there is a target of 100,000 vehicles by 2030, which goes back to the point I asked Mr. McCarthy about. We were told it was really a market function. We know there are grants for vehicles under a certain size. What analysis has been done of the prospect of people moving over?...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Did it talk to the Department of Finance about that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I know. My opening comments to Mr. McCarthy related to the potential fines if we do not meet those targets. They will come back and we will be looking at them in the Department of Finance accounts. I thought there would have been some rigorous analysis of whether the 100,000 target was viable. That is why I am trying to find out what relationship there is and what potential fines we might...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I understand that. In fact, I was surprised to see the number. I thought the big investment would be in public transport. It has a potential impact if it is an unrealistic target. I want to know what kind of rigour goes into setting those targets and what relationship the Department has with that because, as I said, it ends up in these accounts we have been looking at.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Will Mr. Hogan give us documentation about the rigour on this target?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: The section 110 special purpose vehicles, SPVs, have come very much into focus. With the war in Ukraine, we know that very large volumes of money flow, pretty much, through the International Financial Services Centre, IFSC in Dublin. This is largely unregulated activity. The Central Bank has oversight and has identified sanctioned entities. Has this action made it to the risks register in...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Would Mr. Hogan accept that there is not transparency?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Can Mr. Hogan return to the committee with an answer to the question on the risks register, please?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: How many primary dealers does the NTMA have or is that information known? What kind of oversight does the Department have in that? What impact is there in not having an Irish-owned company as the primary dealer?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Very quickly, did I hear Mr. Carville correctly when he said he had been seconded? Secondments are in the news in the past week and this information just jumped out at me.

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