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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I am agnostic on the question of who should look into it. If the cost per life saved is €1 million, and that is agreeable, so be it. It is difficult to put a price on it. In the case of the cancer drug nivolumab, the cost per life saved is €50,000, unless one goes on the Joe Duffy show to harass politicians for six months and get it approved. If it is more than that, then...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I wish to put a few matters on the record in this regard. The liquidation began on 7 February 2013. At the time, control and oversight over remuneration for liquidators was governed by the Companies Act 1963, which also provided for scrutiny by a committee of inspection in the High Court. No committee of inspection has been established in respect of the IBRC or provided for in the Irish...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Sorry, the liquidator.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: It is KPMG. The target here - not that there is a target - is not KPMG. It is paying itself and doing its work as it is allowed to do. Effectively, however, it has been let off. It is paying itself from recoveries, work-outs and various things. Those fees are effectively box-ticking exercises for the Department of Finance. I worry that there is no mechanism to challenge these fees and...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: In effect no money is being paid out from the Department of Finance to KPMG. KPMG is remunerating itself from recoveries-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: -----from the moneys coming in and so on. I would have to go back again to see how much we are losing on this whole liquidation and how much more are we going to lose as a result of it. It clearly has to be done but the level of oversight is much less and poorer than, as I said, if Marc MacSharry was being liquidated with nothing only a computer in his office and €50,000 in debts.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I do not think so. With the best of respect to Mr. McCarthy, while that is a good body of work which will have to be looked at, this is something quite specific. From his own experience in private life or his knowledge of accountancy, because I do not recall and I missed it in the legislation, why would there be no committee of inspection?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Would he agree that it is unusual?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: My worry here is that obviously this is the biggest liquidation in history for Ireland and comparable, as I said, to many international ones. On the level of scrutiny and challenge that must be in play on an ongoing basis, it is clear from the answers that I got, and Mr. McCarthy will see the ones because the meeting had started when I circulated the other ones, that the Department of...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: In parallel with what Mr. McCarthy is doing, we need to press ahead.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I appreciate that there is no role. However, we do not need Mr. McCarthy, with the best of respect to him, to bring it up. Here I am bringing it up. We can decide to press ahead notwithstanding what Mr. McCarthy will refer to that may or may not be linked to the specifics of my issue.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: The Department of Finance and its Accounting Officer are the people who appointed KPMG after what has to be described as not a full public tender. KPMG is certainly capable of this kind of work - of course it is - but this was not a full public tender. The Department basically interviewed the four big firms and chose KPMG. I am not saying there is a major issue with that. I presume there...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I am sure it will be. I am not totally fluent in the Companies Act or the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Act. It is provided for in the Companies Act. If the IBRC Act is silent on it or specifically says there will not be a committee of inspection, then I presume the Companies Act takes precedence, which means it is up to the IBRC to set up a committee of inspection. Alternatively, it...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: There are four reports a year that are published on the website, which really say nothing. They say the cost was X, this was recovered and these were the-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I know we agreed this earlier but just for clarification, will the clerk come back with an indicative date for the engagement with the Secretary General? In addition, is it agreed that we will ask the liquidators to come in on the same day?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: We might have to go the Minister anyway and, in fairness, I think it was agreed that we would look at the possibility of having the Minister before the committee. We agreed to an engagement with the Secretary General and we said we would see, following that, whether a Minister might come before the committee. Could we not have the liquidators in on the same day?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: If we could invite them-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: They will come.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Again, not to put the Chairman on the spot, but roughly speaking, would it be November, December, January, next month?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (21 Sep 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I thank the Chairman for that.

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