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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Is Ms Murdock saying that between 10% and 15% of cases are settled?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Is that through direct settlement?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Where are the rest of them going?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Has Insurance Ireland not seen the level of claims or has it not seen the level of claims being settled?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: There has been a reduction in claims.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Is Ms Murdock saying that of the claims that the industry has, only 15% of them have been settled?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Is Ms Murdock giving me last year's figures? Do not give me this year's figures because a claim takes a long time to be settled so that figure can be manipulated. I am talking about 2020 and 2021.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: What percentage of the claims were direct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Hang on. That is a whole different statistic. The direct settlements have now increased from 50% to 75% since April.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Why did motor insurance premiums decrease? The same issues that apply to motor insurance apply to public liability insurance. Why has motor insurance decreased yet public liability has increased?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: We have seen minor injuries in public liability being settled as well.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Ms Murdock said publicly that "they can't get away from" that, in reference to the commitments the insurance companies, which are members of the Insurance Ireland, made to this committee in terms of passing on reductions in awards. I remind her of what the CEO of Zurich Ireland told this committee back in October 2019. He said that if personal injuries or soft tissue damage cases reduced by...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Hang on. The guidelines came into effect in April of last year, so that is one year ago. We can see from the CSO figures from that point onwards, claims reduced by about 10% but there is no way of knowing. We need this legislation to see if this reduction was the result of less traffic on the roads during Covid or the result of the awards. We have not seen the level of reductions that the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: It was public liability. The CEO went further and said the reduction should be 20%.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The CEO of Zurich Ireland knew about duty of care. He specifically said, because the companies were lobbying here, that we should bring in the Judicial Council guidelines. He said that if we do not see public liability decrease by 20%, members of the committee should ask serious questions. The insurance companies then turned around and jacked up the prices despite the fact that, even with...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Ms Murdock said publicly that the CEOs "can't get away from" in reference to their commitment. That was the commitment I read out to Ms Murdock, namely, that employers liability should be reducing by 20% and, if it is not, to ask serious questions. What are we supposed to do about it when we know they have not just failed to deliver on their commitment and they have actually gone in the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Who is making progress - the insurance industry or the consumers?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Insurance Ireland's members' profits are going to go through the roof.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Come on. What is a reasonable profit? The Central Bank has called the profits of the insurance industry hyper-profits. In motor insurance, it was 12%, four times what it was in the previous decade. Insurance CEOs were telling us that the profit they would look for is about 4%. It is 12%.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I have to pull up Ms Murdock again. The employer's liability and public liability market is profitable. The NCID from 2020 showed a 3% profit margin in regard to those books.

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