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Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: That is not a good thing.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: It is a bad thing. All the other variables stayed the same. Potentially, there will be more women affected, pro rata? That is why we hear reference to 221 plus. The audit has stopped since 1 January so the figure will have to increase pro rata, given that all other variables are the same. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: I appreciate that. I fully understand all of that. All the variables are the same and we are broadly talking about 221 cases on 1 January 2018. The guts of almost another year have elapsed. With all the variables being the same the total has increasedpro rata. That is the first thing to point out. I do not think Mr. McCallion disagrees with any of that.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: My next point concerns important information which was given to us, which I think was only found towards the end of the Scally report by Karin Denton. In order to be audited one obviously had to have cancer and have had smears taken, but she brought in a variable of which we were publicly never aware, namely, the matter of 18 months.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: Yes. That means a woman had to have had cancer and to have had a smear. If it was under six months everyone understood because it was too close but we did not know that it was between six and 18 months. When it comes to the 221 cases we know the audit has stopped and the variables have stayed the same so the figure will go up because of that, but what we publicly need to know is whether it...

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: I am aware of that.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: It is not the case?

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: So Dr. Scally's report is wrong.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: So the minutes are wrong.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: Yes, it is important to clarify it.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: What criteria were used?

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: So there was no timeline. It was not even six months, as I understood.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: There was no timeline. That is good information.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: In fairness, Dr. Scally needs to come out and-----

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: I do not want to wrong him, as I think he has done a good job.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: On the labs, does any of the witnesses yet have a copy of the tenders that were put out a number of years ago, which were destroyed? I do not imply there was any wrongdoing in that regard but has anyone found any copies of the original tenders? Statistically, Dr. Scally found that the labs were clear as regards international norms. I accept that. However, what I do not understand is...

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: In fairness to the witnesses, it must be said that the answers they are giving are pretty direct. It has been a failure. It should not have happened. The labs were not inspected when cases were settled. These cases were not just about non-disclosure but were about potential negligence and in that context, the labs should have been inspected. Let us be honest about that.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: My next question is for Mr. CiarĂ¡n Breen. In the context of the Taoiseach's comments that the women affected would not have to take the legal course and following the publication of Mr. Justice Meenan's report, how will the State Claims Agency ensure that women do not end up in court or, if they do end up in court, how will it help them if they decide not to be in the process outlined...

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: It is the review of all of the slides of the women affected which is being conducted by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: Yes. My last question is also for the HSE. What is the intended date for the implementation of HPV testing as part of cervical check? This is a very important question and lots of people watching these proceedings want to know the answer. This is absolutely critical. We need a date. A few months ago we were told it would happen within six months. When will HPV testing begin? What is...

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