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Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: I understand the differential. The issue I am trying to get to is that we now know publicly that there is a big backlog. What is the extent of the backlog? It runs to how many thousands?

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: We are getting there.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: Being honest, that is as a direct result of the fact that there is now free smear testing.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: That is good.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: That is also good. There are pluses and minuses. I understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: When the decision was made to go down this route, it was to cause an avalanche and we all know why. There is no way I am making a political point because the circumstances were quite unique and I just want to get to the facts. As a consequence, what was the resource differential or what capacity was created to deal with the issue?

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: I understand that. I have read a lot about the issue. We have gone from a delay two weeks ago of 18 weeks to 20 weeks.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: There are two or more steps. First, the resources being put in from a HSE perspective in bringing forward HPV testing have to include similar people in some way. Are the resources being put in undertaking the more immediate task - finding capacity to deal with the issue - the same as those being put in in providing HPV testing? Is this going to affect the roll-out and timeline for...

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: Mr. McCallion has been most eloquent, but I think this is a huge risk. I think there is a significant overlap. I do not think there are enough resources and that will affect the roll-out of HPV testing. When it comes to the backlog, some of the women who were triaged cases may have to go back for screening sooner than others. Some women might be asked to come back because of potential...

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: I was going to move on to that. Perhaps Mr. McCallion saw my notes.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: That is a serious risk. Just to clarify for the public watching, and for the Minister for Health, is Mr. McCallion saying that the system cannot distinguish between women whom I have described, who have to come in more often, for example every six months or year, and those who come in for a three-year review?

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: Is that not a serious problem?

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: That is new information and that is a risk.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: Of course. I appreciate that.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: We have been given a figure of 221 but Dr. Scally has said the figure will grow and he is correct. I want to tease that out a bit. Is it correct that the audit stopped on 1 January?

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: That is not a good thing.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: It is a bad thing. All the other variables stayed the same. Potentially, there will be more women affected, pro rata? That is why we hear reference to 221 plus. The audit has stopped since 1 January so the figure will have to increase pro rata, given that all other variables are the same. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: I appreciate that. I fully understand all of that. All the variables are the same and we are broadly talking about 221 cases on 1 January 2018. The guts of almost another year have elapsed. With all the variables being the same the total has increasedpro rata. That is the first thing to point out. I do not think Mr. McCallion disagrees with any of that.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: My next point concerns important information which was given to us, which I think was only found towards the end of the Scally report by Karin Denton. In order to be audited one obviously had to have cancer and have had smears taken, but she brought in a variable of which we were publicly never aware, namely, the matter of 18 months.

Public Accounts Committee: Matters related to Medical Negligence, Open Disclosure, Cervical Cancer and Thalidomide Litigation (8 Nov 2018)

Alan Kelly: Yes. That means a woman had to have had cancer and to have had a smear. If it was under six months everyone understood because it was too close but we did not know that it was between six and 18 months. When it comes to the 221 cases we know the audit has stopped and the variables have stayed the same so the figure will go up because of that, but what we publicly need to know is whether it...

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