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Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: The board is currently overseeing a full cost review at the bank, which will seek to reduce costs across all areas of the bank's operations, including pay costs. As Deputies will be aware, the bank has recently introduced the first phase of its redundancy programme targeting up to 230 departures across the bank. As the employees are not public servants, they have no public service security...

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: In addition, Anglo Irish Bank has recently submitted its restructuring plan to the European Commission. The plan considers all options for the future of the bank and a detailed evaluation of the plan is now under way. The process will involve extensive consultation and dialogue between the Irish authorities, the European Commission and the bank to agree a restructuring plan for Anglo Irish...

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: We should remember the old saying that the wheels of justice grind slowly, but grind exceedingly small.

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: There is no protection for those responsible for what happened. As a former Senator nominee of the Irish Thoroughbred Breeders' Association, I was many times in the Galway tent, but I never met the gentleman to whom the Deputy referred. I am not saying he was not there, but I never met the person referred to by Deputy Burton in my life. I hold no brief, and never did, for any of his activities.

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: With regard to the comments made by Professor Honohan, the Taoiseach dealt with that matter on the Order of Business and I have nothing further to add. The Minister invested €4 billion in Anglo Irish Bank in the summer -----

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: He has indicated that if necessary, he may invest more, but that is a decision to be made at that time. No figure was indicated and he declined to speculate. Deputy O'Donnell raised a question which obscured different questions. He asked about letting the bank fail and whether it was systemically important. That is, potentially, a different question in September 2008, January 2009 and...

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: The pay cuts and pension levy are different things. With legislation on any subject, it is always the case that there are points at the fringes, grey areas of definition that must be tied down. This Bill is no different from any other legislation in that regard.

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: Deputy Burton referred to the men of no property. One of the achievements of this State and of my party, but not my party exclusively, is that up to 80% of the men and women of no property have become men and women of some property. That has been the achievement of independence.

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: Approximately 80% of people own their homes.

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: A correction is needed to the record. When the Minister of State, Deputy Pat Carey, was responding to the Second Stage debate his notes inadvertently stated that the staff of the NTMA were not subject to the pension levy. That is incorrect. They are subject to the levy.

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: Allow me continue. That is only the preamble.

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: However, they will not be subject to the reductions in pay rates. This is because, exceptionally, they set their own pay rates and it was considered inappropriate to apply the pay rate reductions to them. However, the pension levy is appropriately applied as they will benefit from a public service pension scheme. The NTMA is-----

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: The Deputy may argue the point when I have finished.

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: The NTMA staff are excluded from the pay cuts, although they are covered by the pension levy. Pay in the NTMA is determined in a manner similar to the excluded commercial State bodies and there is no Government control of pay rates. Therefore, it is not appropriate to make the cuts. If Deputies wish to know why the NTMA sets its own pay rates, it is because it was established as a...

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: I did not use the term in that context.

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: The Deputy is being very smart.

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: Are we talking about horses?

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: I was there.

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: One might say the same of contributions from other places. There are always decisions to be taken as to what clauses and definitions apply to legislation.

Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Dec 2009)

Martin Mansergh: When I referred to fringe grey areas-----

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