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Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: So Dr. Thorn had no personal or professional relationship with him.

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Dr. Thorn might wonder why I am pursuing this line of questioning. I will state it very directly. If there is anything in Dr. Thorn's professional dealings that compromises his willingness or ability to look at all these matters dispassionately and thoroughly, then we have a problem. It would be a problem in any scenario but it is a much bigger problem because the nub of the accusation...

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Okay. I need to talk to Dr. Thorn and he needs to talk to us about that. Why would there be any question mark over whether or not to speak to the previous president?

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Would it not be absolutely necessary for Dr. Thorn to speak to him? He is examining things such as governance, culture, the turn of events, HR processes. It is a fairly extensive piece of work that is being carried out so how on earth could there have been a question in Dr. Thorn's mind over whether or not he would speak to Professor Barry?

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: I will be direct with Dr. Thorn. When I read that, it really troubled me that Dr. Thorn was wondering if he would or would not speak to Professor Barry. The article in question is much more definitive. It says that he would not be looking to speak to him. When I went and had a look at Dr. Thorn's profile and saw that he had had an involvement with a college associated with the university,...

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Does Dr. Thorn propose to speak to the whistleblowers?

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Will this process act as a break in any other processes such as the kind of issues I raised with Professor Fitzgerald earlier, where there might be a disciplinary matter that needs to be attended to?

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Will Dr. Thorn be reporting to Dr. Love?

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: It is important that we have an understanding as to what happens to that report then. Typically, this committee ends up dealing retrospectively with a mess and this is one hell of a mess in Limerick. It is important that Dr. Thorn is present and that we can get ahead of this issue. In addition to the Department and HEA, I would like Dr. Thorn to report back here also. Is that possible? Is...

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Is that acceptable from the Department's point of view because we will have to see what it comes up with?

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Professor Fitzgerald is a fresh pair legs for this task. The objective is to definitively deal with everything from start to finish, including the fact that two employees are currently on extended suspensions.

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Has Professor Fitzgerald met the whistleblowers?

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Professor Fitzgerald will appreciate there is a huge reluctance among people within the university to come forward.

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: I invite Dr. Thorn to confirm whether he will interview and speak to Professor Don Barry, former president of the University of Limerick, as part of his investigation.

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: I thank Dr. Thorn. He is examining many dimensions and it is a substantial job of work that he has undertaken. What qualifies him to investigate allegations of fraud, which is what this amounts to in respect of bogus expenses claims?

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: I recognise that.

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: There will be matters that are technical in nature and potentially relate to fraudulent claims.

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Has that been factored into the HEA's plans?

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Provide technical expertise. In other words, Dr. Thorn will not draft a report that shows conspicuous absences within his investigation.

Public Accounts Committee: University College Cork and University of Limerick: Financial Statements (22 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: I wish to ask Professor O'Shea about Professor Emeritus Connell Fanning and the Keynes Centre. We do not have time to get into it, but a question was asked of UCC and Professor Fanning about the centre's output. Is it a separate institute?

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