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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: Mr. Black is present. Perhaps he could tell if this review has been completed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: Nobody from the SBCI is appearing before the committee.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: My next question concerns the pandemic stabilisation and recovery fund. What is the percentage rate comparable for loans given in this regard from commercial banks?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: I understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: I appreciate that. In the same vein, could Mr. O'Kelly just answer the question I am asking, which relates to the percentage rate if someone borrows from the pandemic stabilisation and recovery fund compared to a commercial bank?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: What is that percentage rate?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: What is the percentage rate?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: Mr. O'Kelly states that it is virtually the equivalent of a commercial bank on all those fronts.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: The Minister for Finance said that a loan facility of up to €240 billion would be provided through the ISIF to the SBCI. The SBCI drew down €25 million of the facility in 2016. In 2017, another €25 million loan was converted into shares in the SBCI. These were issued to the Minister in accordance with the Act. In October 2020, the Minister subscribed for an additional...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: Mr. O'Kelly heard me say that the amount of money available was €165 million at the time when it was increased. Why was there a loan facility?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: Could Mr. O'Kelly send a detailed response to that question to the committee? The question is why a loan facility was made available to the Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland in October 2020. In answering it, Mr. O'Kelly might outline the terms and conditions of the loan facility. If he wishes to revert to the committee in writing, that will be fine.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: My questions are for Mr. O'Kelly. What is the figure now for national debt per head of population?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: What is the population figure for that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: Therefore, that would be the most recent one.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: In May, when Mr. O'Kelly was asked about the debt burden for the taxpayer, he said "What burden?" Would he consider that to be a burden or does he stand over his comments?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: Does Mr. O'Kelly envisage any risk in the very near future of an increase in interest rates when we go to refinance?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: At what percentage rate did the NTMA lock in?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: To go back slightly, Mr. O'Kelly is a member of the board of the Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: He is on the board. Going back to my initial question, is he, as a board member, aware whether the EY report of the review of SBCI has been completed?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapters 15 and 16
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - Chapter 16
National Treasury Management Agency - Financial Statements 2020
(7 Oct 2021)

Verona Murphy: It has been completed. Okay. I presume that on the basis that we have a separate remit with SBCI, Mr. O'Kelly does not wish to share that report with the committee.

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