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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I thank Deputy Catherine Murphy. I call Deputy Hourigan.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I might return to the need for the pre-action protocol. It was interesting that Mr. Breen raised it. This would help start a case on the right food, reduce legal costs and speed up settlements, but he identified a technical issue here. Will Mr. Dempsey please explain what the issue is and what is being done by the Department to address it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I presume the Department of Health is in communication with the Department of Justice on this.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Will Mr. Dempsey report back that the matter arose at this morning's meeting and has been identified as an issue that needs to be progressed? It is important that it happen, and the Accounting Officer outlined why it is important. We were not aware of it before this meeting. It would be helpful in shortening the period for settling cases but would also help reduce legal costs and might...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Nevertheless, departmental officials can sometimes dictate the speed at which these things move. My next question relates to the overall number of claims. I appreciate that reducing the number of claims is not the agency's job. This was clarified earlier in respect of the medical profession. Are there active engagements, particularly with State bodies in the big four or five areas, with...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: On the overall global figure of assessments since 2012 and the actual total number of claims, a lot of the discussion we have had today referred back to that ten-year period. What kinds of figures are there for the numbers that came in on an annual basis? Is there a figure for 2012 and a figure for 2022 where we could see the actual number of claims, if not the value of them? This could...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: It has stabilised slightly with a slight reduction across that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: What was the percentage? What number were settled in 2022 as compared to the amount of claims?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: What is the order of percentages?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: That would be in the order of about 15%.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I thank Mr. Breen for that. With regard to Covid and nursing homes how many claims have been made around nursing home deaths?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Is there an estimate of liability for that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: At this point, is it the case that there are signs that those cases will move into mediation as opposed to an adversarial setting in court?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Are there signs that this would happen? I know this is not totally in Mr. Breen's hands.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: On the controversy that arose weeks ago around the nursing home charges for patients who held medical cards, has the State Claims Agency seen an increase in the claims in the last three to four weeks from families and residents regarding those charges?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Okay, the agency is not handling them but does it have to make a provision for the cost of that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Okay. Does Deputy Catherine Murphy have one final question?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I thank Mr. Breen. There was a request earlier that the officials would come back with an update on the civil liability amendment Bill by the end of the meeting. Do we have any update on that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: It is a bit open-ended, but I am aware that if this is the reply that the Department of Justice gave-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I thank Mr. Breen and the other witnesses from the State Claims Agency. I thank the Department of Health and the HSE for the work involved in preparing for today's meeting. The witnesses had to take many questions today. I thank the Comptroller and Auditor General and staff for attending and assisting with today's meeting. Is it agreed that the clerk will seek any follow-up information...

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