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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Does Mr. Breen have a breakdown of those?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Yes, I ask for that information in relation to the Midlands Prison in Portlaoise, specifically the old Portlaoise high-security prison.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: According to the information that I have, Waterways Ireland, though a relatively small body, tends to have a substantial estimated liability. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: What is the average award regarding injuries within An Garda Síochána? I know, unfortunately, that a lot of gardaí are being attacked on duty and we see them increasingly receiving injuries.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Prisons fall under the agency's remit, however.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: An Garda Síochána will come under the agency's remit.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Does Mr. Breen have any idea of the average award?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: It was different because they were being settled by a different body, the Garda compensation fund.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: It seems to be an issue, even with the State Claims Agency, that the length of time it takes to resolve a claim tends to be a factor in driving up costs. I think that is accepted. Is it correct that costs for the agency increase, in terms of the size of the award, the longer the case goes on and the legal costs are related?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I believe surgical claims take an average of 5.25 years. Am I correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: The average time has been increasing steadily since 2012. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Legal costs make up 24% of the total cost of a claim, which is substantial. The briefing material indicates that the State Claims Agency has procurement. I found it surprising that such a substantial chunk of a claim relates solely to legal costs. If the outstanding liability is just shy of €5 billion, legal costs will be €1.25 billion, which is a huge figure. What can be...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Mr. Breen accepts that it is over-generous.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: There would be a fear in people dealing with the legal profession. There is the old saying about creating a big file. It does not matter how many letters go back and forward - it might only be one sentence - but the wording is in the letter and there is a charge for each one. Obviously, that increases when it moves up. Mr. Breen is dealing with substantial claims, but the length of time...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Has Mr. Breen carried out analysis of where cases drag out over a longer period and made a comparison? I am sure the State Claims Agency has claims that are settled relatively quickly. Has Mr. Breen done a comparison on them to see what the difference is?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Okay. With regard to mediation, what kind of cost comparison is there in the overall costs - legal and everything else all in at the end - in terms of the size of that cost for the State Claims Agency? What is the percentage of difference?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: What is it in the order of, though? Is it 10% or 20%?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: And a large reduction in legal costs is part of that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I thank Mr. Breen. I will go back to the questions for a second. Members might bear with me. Some Deputies who are tied up with other duties may come in later. I will go back to Deputy Hourigan.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I am sorry; Deputy Murphy can take six minutes and we will see how we go.

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