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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Can I just ask a question? I do not contest the figure of 70% of people banking online or digitally. Many people will do transactions digitally but would Ms Howard agree that a large proportion of people, far more than 30%, open a bank account in-branch? The numbers provided to the committee from other banks which have seen accounts opened in recent months, such as AIB, show that a large...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: What happens six months after the letters that were issued on 13 April? Is it the case that these people will be frozen out of their bank accounts if they have not switched? They will not be able to withdraw money from an ATM, or pay standing orders and direct debits; is that not the case?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. Thirty days after that, Ulster Bank will issue them a cheque if they have any money in their account. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I refer to customers who have overdrafts. We are in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis, as I am sure Ms Howard is aware. Many families are pushed to the pin of their collar. What will happen to customers with overdrafts who have not dealt with them by that point?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: What happens in six months plus 30 days when the bank has frozen them out of their account, closed it and issued them a cheque if they have any money left, and there is an overdraft on the account? Will Ms Howard inform the committee how many Ulster Bank customers have overdrafts and give the average on those accounts? What does the bank do? Will it send it to a debt collecting agent?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: But there will be customers who cannot pay their overdrafts. What will Ulster Bank do?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Sorry. People are out there saying that they are finding it difficult to pay their electricity bill and are really struggling to put food on the table. Inflation is at 7%. Ulster Bank is withdrawing and they have been loyal customers. They have an overdraft of €2,000 and their account has to be closed by September or October. The kids will be going back to school then. What will...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: So they will not have an account in the bank but they will still have an overdraft from the bank. How does that work? The account will be closed.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I am talking about customers who have not opened a new account who have an overdraft. Ulster Bank has closed their account on them in six months. What happens to the overdraft?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: We know that. With respect, what happens? We know the supports. Ms Arnett wants to talk about the supports. I want to talk about what happens to the individual who cannot clear their overdraft, and has not closed their account. We know that Ulster Bank will close their account after six months and issue them a cheque 30 days after that if there are any funds. I am asking for clarity and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Maybe Ms Arnett can inform the committee of what that suite of supports is at a later stage because none of the bank's customers know what they are.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I welcome our guests to the meeting. We have a lot to get through; I hope we get through as much of it as possible. I thank them for answering the questions in the questionnaire. That is very helpful. I will turn to Mr. Hayes to give us the real scéal. All the banks' representatives have told us how wonderful they are doing in terms of providing resources to customers. With...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Why did Ulster Bank not transfer its deposit accounts to Permanent TSB? Hundreds of thousands of customers are in a terrible situation where they have to switch, find their direct debits and deal with all the issues. Why were they not just transferred as part of the transaction with Permanent TSB?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Was it possible to do it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I can understand why Permanent TSB would take that position. Obviously, Ulster Bank is heavily concentrated in different regions-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: -----including in my county, and Permanent TSB will be opening four new branches in Donegal.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Unfortunately, one will close. Is there not a big concern that if deposits do not flow into those branches, there will be an issue with their viability in the future? Permanent TSB is buying buildings and loans, but it has no deposits in any of those branches.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: We do not want to be dealing with a situation a couple of years down the road where we find that customers did not migrate to those branches, and then there is a question in terms of closing branches at a future point. What is Permanent TSB doing specifically with regard to those 25 branches, as opposed to trying to attract as many customers as possible? Has it got a specific marketing or...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate that. Some of it will be helpful. One of the consequences of KBC and Ulster bank withdrawing from the market, which is obviously a terrible thing for consumers and for the footprint of banking in the State, is the reality that many of the loans involved will be transferred to Bank of Ireland and Permanent TSB. Many of those are fixed-rate loans. When customers come off the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Withdrawal from Irish Banking Market: Engagement with Ulster Bank and KBC Ireland (18 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Most customers in this environment will be looking to fix their rates.

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