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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: Why did the HEA have little capacity to intervene?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: Would Mr. Boland accept that having a €1.2 billion budget without the power to do what he has just outlined means the role of the HEA is probably more focused on certification, awards and finance?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: Would that not be down to the institutions? As the Comptroller and Auditor General said at the start - I am paraphrasing him - the vast majority of the universities have external auditors. The Higher Education Authority, HEA, does not have an audit function but it has a responsibility to ensure the money voted from the Oireachtas goes to the purpose for which it was intended. The...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: What does Mr. Boland mean by saying no HEA could manage the system?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: As I stated at the outset, the only people that will wind up suffering from any punishment will be the students. Of the 60 people in the organisation, how many are accountants?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: One.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: That is one accountant for a €1.2 billion budget.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: There are two accountants for a €1.2 billion budget.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: Is that sufficient, in Mr. Boland's estimation?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: Surely the HEA's role in governance extends to financial governance, which is what the report is geared towards.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: How can two people with a €1.2 billion budget adequately sign off on matters and say they are satisfied that all the institutions covered by the authority have proper governance models?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: That is retrospective.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: The HEA carried out a review of financial statements.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: For example, did it carry out a review of the financial statement into the National College of Art and Design, NCAD, in 2005 and 2006?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: It is probably fair to say that as more requirements were being placed on institutions to carry out particular work relating to governance, the delays in which certified accounts were provided lengthened. The delay in 2004 and 2005 was five months - which could be seen as fantastic - but this went to 39 months. In reviewing 2008 and 2009, when the HEA knew that there was no set of certified...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: Mr. Roche has had conversations about certified accounts with the NCAD between 2009 and now but what action has been taken as we knew there were no certified accounts?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: Did the authority ask, for example, how many times the audit committee met?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: Was it not seen as important to ask that?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: It would have been seen as important to ask that but it was not asked?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

Patrick O'Donovan: Did Mr. Roche at any stage ask Professor McGonagle or previous directors at NCAD how many times the audit committee met?

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