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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: Will Mr. Pollock come back to us with that date?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: There is a reason I am asking Mr. Pollock this question. What was the total cost of the project then at that point in August 2018?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: One would assume it was €983 million plus €200 million.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: That is fine. In August 2018, therefore, it was €283 million plus €200 million plus VAT plus the urgent care centres plus the issues with the contractors. That equalled X. Was that the equation?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: Am I wrong in what I just said?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: I just repeated back what Mr. Pollock said. That is all I did.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: That is fine. Let me repeat, because there is deep concern here. What was the €200 million made up of?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: Why was there an escalation of €140 million? I understand the €60 million. Mr. Pollock explained the issues with that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: I know about the €60 million. Mr. Pollock has explained that very well, in fairness to him. I am asking about the €140 million.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: User engagement was basically the other three hospitals.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: The €60 million related to the whole issue of An Bord Pleanála in September 2017. Then the €140 million was for user engagement.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: I understand. It should be borne in mind that thousands of people are watching these proceedings. Therefore the figure is €283 million plus €60 million plus €140 million. The figure of €60 million was for what Mr. Pollack outlined. There was then the figure of €140 million, which brought it to €200 million, on which Mr. Pollack reported in August...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: In reality, it was €283 million plus the €200 million. In fairness and to be complete, Mr. Pollock is saying it did not include VAT. It also did not include the issues related to the urgent care centres and to two contractors who had problems. For completeness, is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: Okay; the urgent care centres and the contractors were one issue.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: That provides clarity. The figure is €283 million plus €60 million and €140 million, plus VAT and the two issues related to the urgent care centres and contractors. I have got that. That was in August-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: It is an important clarification.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: He is being very helpful.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: I will return to this issue in a different forum, but that is not what was communicated publicly at the time, which is why I wanted to have it broken down. The figures communicated to the Department in August 2018 are critical. I have a few more quick questions, some of which are about costs based on operations. Therefore, I presume Ms Hardiman will answer them. Before that, on the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: Are there costs related to any of the buildings nearby or disturbance? Are there other costs in addition to the €1.7 billion? It was said the figure was €1.43 million and then Ms Hardiman explained. In fairness, there is a difference of only €9 million. Is it absolute?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: The people watching at home do not have it.

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