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Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: It would be useful to have that information, as well as details on what breaches are costing or potentially costing every year.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: No, we are not. I want to know how many cases there are.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I am referring to procurement related cases taken against the HSE.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: It could be.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I would like to know how many such cases there are and how much they are costing us.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: It is good that the HSE generally wins them. Are many of the 2,400 agencies the subject of any specific interest regarding issues similar to those that occurred in Console and Rehab? Is there, let us say, a top ten or 15 organisations that the HSE, with the limited resources available to it, has identified as requiring a particularly close examination?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Are any organisations being investigated by the HSE for what we might describe as "Console level activity"?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Let us say it is activity that would give rise to a level of public anger and dismay similar to that which occurred in the Console case.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: We do not need to get into the details regarding St. John of God. Is the HSE pursuing other organisations?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Of the 8,500, is there concern about one, six, ten, 15 or more of them?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: When will that process be concluded?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: For the benefit of the people watching at home, who decides whether an agency is a section 38 or 39 agency?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: For that to happen ministerial sanction and primary legislation would be required.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I thank the witnesses for clarifying that issue. The following groups are voluntary hospice groups, Galway Hospice, Marymount Hospice, Cork, Milford Hospice in the mid-west, North West Hospice, Sligo and St. Francis Hospice in Raheny. All of these facilities have confirmed to the HSE that they were directed by it to implement pay cuts under both the Financial Emergency Measures in the...

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I would like to continue because a vote has been called in the Dáil. The staff working in these areas are highly trained professionals, doing remarkably similar or identical work to their section 38 counterparts, all of whom have had their pay restored under the Lansdowne Road agreement. All of these staff have long established and recognised contractual pay linkages with HSE...

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Mr. Mulvany is not in a position to confirm at this point that additional funding will be made available by the HSE to the hospice groups for this purpose.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Returning to my first question, should the hospice network, given the work it does, come within the section 38 sector?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: It is not the role of the committee to comment on policy either. In terms of the committee's work, we commented earlier on the issue of additional regulation and if with additional funding the HSE could do more on the section 39 issues discussed at that time. Would it make better sense for the hospice network, in terms of doing its work, to be treated as a section 38 organisation?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Does Mr. O'Brien appreciate and accept that it is a major difficulty for them?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I recommend that following this meeting the committee write to the Ministers for Public Expenditure and Reform and Health, requesting a detailed examination within a specific timeframe on the voluntary hospice network being treated as section 38 agencies as opposed to section 39 agencies in order to deal with the question arising.

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