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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: If that is not accurate, the witnesses can tell me.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: I am aware.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: I am aware of that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: A total of €60 million.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: The Department, namely, Jim Breslin or the Minister or both, would have been aware of that in late 2017.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: That is fine. That is not the issue on which I wish to concentrate.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: We are somewhat short on time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: When was that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: Mother of God.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: That was in August 2018.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: Obviously, there was no comment from the Department at that stage. That is another €140 million. When did the cost escalate from €200 million?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: That is when the approximate €400 million overrun was identified.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: The cost went up by €60 million and then another €140 million. In the two months from the end of August until the end of October, by how much more than €400 million had the final cost risen?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: The Department of Health was aware of a €200 million overrun in August 2018. By the time of the board meeting at the end of October or in early November, the overrun was €450 million.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: I know.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: The conclusion of the statement provided by Mr. Costello reads, "There are lessons to be learned in relation to the wisdom of pursuing cost reductions on competitive tenders and ensuring the sufficiency of tender information, in particular, mechanical and electrical services at tender stage."

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: I know that. Mr. Costello said that he would not change how he did the tender or he would not change his decision making.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: I have serious problems with that because we are in virgin territory here in that we have never done this before and that is why the phrase "best practice" is not applicable here. I do not accept that this is international best practice because of the circumstances in this case. When it comes to best practice, we are not comparing like with like. It is not apples and apples and oranges and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: How many beds are there in the three hospitals?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Alan Kelly: I understood that they had considerably more.

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