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Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Supplementary Estimates for 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: The Minister can put a spin on the situation but the reality of what is in the briefing notes prepared for him, which I presume he was asked to articulate to the head of the Department of Health and the Minister for Health, paints an entirely different picture. Perhaps the Minister will let me finish my point. It suggests this was not the normal cut and thrust of division that might take...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Supplementary Estimates for 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: Well-----

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Supplementary Estimates for 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: What you cannot do is challenge facts. I am entitled to my opinion and the Minister is entitled to his. Earlier, I raised what are legitimate concerns and issues about a perceived mistrust between his Department and the Department of Health and the language in these documents and then he has come back to say that this just the normal cut and thrust of the ELS process every year. That is...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Supplementary Estimates for 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: Could I just make one point?

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Supplementary Estimates for 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: I will make one final point and then leave the Minister to respond. I do not wish to come back in again.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Supplementary Estimates for 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: When the Cathaoirleach GnĂ­omhach is finished.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Supplementary Estimates for 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: Let us look at the facts. I will make one final contribution-----

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Supplementary Estimates for 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: -----and I will let the Minister respond. Quarterly meetings take place between officials in the Department of Health and the Department of public expenditure and reform. Two meetings took place on 3 October and 6 October. The Ministers for Health and public expenditure were present, as were officials. Bids were presented by the Department of Health, which come from the HSE. The HSE is...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Supplementary Estimates for 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: You are very defensive.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Supplementary Estimates for 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: Can I respond to that?

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Supplementary Estimates for 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: I was just going to say that people can see it for themselves in the Minister's briefing documents and make up their own minds. As I said-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Sláintecare Reforms (Resumed) (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: I will pick up on the theme of the elective hospitals. I will go first to Mr. O'Connor. Why is it taking so long to progress these? As Deputy Burke said, we have had numerous conversations with the Minister for Health about the need to pick up the pace in relation to elective hospitals. We know the elective hospitals will reform the health services. I use the word "Reform" with a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Sláintecare Reforms (Resumed) (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: We all know it takes time to deliver, but it should not take as long as it is taking. I refer even to the response that I have just gotten in relation to the constraints of the public spending code. We have to call out the feet-dragging on this issue, as far as I can see. There are no excuses as to why these projects are not further down the line, given the commitments that have been made...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Sláintecare Reforms (Resumed) (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: No, answer the question I put about why it has taken so long. Why is it taking so long? What is causing the delays in the delivery of this project? If the Minister is of the view that it should have been done earlier and if he is saying to us that he anticipated that we would have been much further down the line at this point in time, why is it the case that we are not?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Sláintecare Reforms (Resumed) (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: I would be amazed if these hospitals were completed, or if the first patients were to be seen in 2027. Given our experience of building hospitals, I would be amazed if the doors were opened by then. We see this with the children's hospital. We have to look at the bandwidth in the system as well, because the national maternity hospital will come very quickly. That will take a lot of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Sláintecare Reforms (Resumed) (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: I have a follow-up question. From Mr. O'Connor's best estimation, when would he estimate that summary care records will be in place? That is the first step. We want to get to a point where we have electronic patient records. What is Mr. O'Connor's best estimation as to what year we can get to that across the health service?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Sláintecare Reforms (Resumed) (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: In broad terms, are we talking five, seven or ten years?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Sláintecare Reforms (Resumed) (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: That is for what? For summary care?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Sláintecare Reforms (Resumed) (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: For full electronic patient records?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Sláintecare Reforms (Resumed) (6 Dec 2023)

David Cullinane: Is that within a three-year timespan as well, or will that be longer?

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