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Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I will address one issue with regard to the number of people who own their own homes. Many of them have family, children and grandchildren, living with them. People are squeezed into box rooms with no hope. With regard to this idea of segregating and saying that people who own their own homes are grand, many people are worried about their children. This is not a one generation issue but a...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I welcome everyone to the meeting. Apologies have been received from the Chair, Deputy Stanley, and from Deputies Alan Kelly, Jennifer Carroll MacNeill, James O'Connor and Colm Burke. Please note that in order to limit the risk of spreading Covid-19, the Service encourages all members, visitors and witnesses to continue to wear face masks when moving around the campus or when in close...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Thank you. Mr. Gunning, as detailed in the letter of invitation, you have five minutes for your opening statement and I invite you to make it now.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I understand Mr. Tierney wishes to make an opening statement on behalf of the Department. He has five minutes and I will stick to that limit. I allowed Mr. Gunning to go beyond the fives minutes but I ask Mr. Tierney to stick to that limit.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Our lead speaker today is Deputy McAuliffe, who will have 15 minutes. All other members will have ten minutes. I will allow members to contribute in a second round if time permits. We will take a break at approximately 11 a.m.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I think I am next on the list. I echo Deputy McAuliffe's point that none of us need to be convinced of the need or value of a new children's hospital. That is not our remit. We are the Committee of Public Accounts and that is our focus. What was the original completion date in the tender documents?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: That is what the contractor signed.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: We would have looked for it to be complete this year.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: But the original contract was 2022. The slippage at the beginning around the milestones for completion was quite substantial in the first couple of years. Some of that related to inadequate staff being provided by the contractor on the site. Is that the case?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Does that take account of the time lag after the construction sector came back and the hospital came back? There was a time when building was back in action and the hospital site was not.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: At the back end of last year, we started to see inflation rise substantially. This year has been very different. A hospital that would have been completed in October of this year would be at significantly lower risk from inflation than one that will be substantially complete by January 2024. A contract is a two-way thing. I have been constantly asking about counterclaims in relation to...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Will Mr. Gunning describe that to me in English? What would liquidated assets look like? When would that kick in? How would it manifest itself?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: So this is unlikely to happen until the end.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Is inflation taken into account in terms of the over-run? Above the 4%, that would be a liability that might otherwise not have applied.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Okay. I want to move on to a couple of other points. One of them relates to the Comptroller and Auditor General's opening statement. I would like Mr. Gunning to explain something to me. There is only one project now that Tallaght and Blanchardstown are complete. The Comptroller and Auditor General's statement noted: The board is funded by Oireachtas grants provided via the Health...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: What new contracts?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I wish to ask the Comptroller and Auditor General about this. I understood this was capital. These are not additional claims.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: I am hearing €90 million in addition to the €50 million. Am I right on that?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: What percentage of the current claims relate to extension of time?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2020 (16 Jun 2022)

Catherine Murphy: Yes, if you would.

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