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Written Answers — Department of Education and Skills: Schools Building Contractors (7 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: I propose to take Questions Nos. 98 to 100, inclusive, together. MLM Ireland is the Department appointed Assigned Certifier on 4 of the 19 schools in which precautionary health and safety measures were required. These schools are Ashbourne Post Primary School (De Lacy College), Ashbourne ETNS, Gaelscoil Na Mi, Ashbourne and Scoil Caitlin Maude in Tallaght. An inspection plan and inspection...

Written Answers — Department of Education and Skills: Arts in Education Charter (7 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: I propose to take Questions Nos. 102 and 103 together. The Arts in Education Charter was launched in 2013 as a joint initiative of the Department of Education and Skills and the then Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, working with the Arts Council. The Charter recognised the value of arts in education and committed to cross-departmental co-operation in this area. A number...

Written Answers — Department of Education and Skills: Special Educational Needs Service Provision (7 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: My Department's policy is to provide for the inclusive education of children with special educational needs, including Autism (ASD), in mainstream school settings, unless such a placement would not be in the best interests of the child concerned, or the children with whom they will be educated. The greater proportion of children with ASD attend mainstream class, where they may access...

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate: School Accommodation Provision (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: I understand that the Deputy is trying to keep the momentum going on this project. He can see the starting line and wants to get the diggers on site. The initial works began on 24 September and were scheduled to take five weeks. We are in that space now and once that work is complete the ESB will go on site. I have no doubt that the Deputy will use his influence at a local level to try to...

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate: School Accommodation Provision (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: Gabhaim buíochas don Teachta as ucht an cheist fadúda an scoil i gCeann Toirc i gContae Chorcaí. I thank Deputy Moynihan for raising this issue. The Deputy will recall the update provided by the former Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Bruton, in March. He will also be aware that this project has had a difficult history, both on the site acquisition front and during...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: Gabhaim buíochas as ucht chuireadh an Chathaoirligh go dtí an coiste seo inniu. Tá an t-ábhar seo iontach tábhachtach. Táim ag dúil go mór leis an díospóireacht le baill den choiste. I appreciate the opportunity to update the committee today on the structural assessments undertaken in 42 schools constructed by Western Building Systems and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: That is no problem. There will be specific questions I will not be in a position to answer but I will be happy to obtain the information sought. If there are elements I miss out on, Mr. Hubert Loftus will be more familiar with them and their history. Let me deal first with the issues raised by Deputy Thomas Byrne. I agree with him that a number of players are involved; it is not just...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: The clerk of works is ensuring the work continues. Obviously, there is vigilance. If there is a good clerk of works on site, he or she will be taking photographs and doing all the necessary work. In the past two years, I was speaking to the clerk of works on a school project in Donegal. He was telling me that every day he was on site he was taking photographs and being vigilant. The work...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: One of the questions Deputy Thomas Byrne asked was how much a fire safety audit cost. I do not have that figure to hand, but I am happy to get it for him. The Deputy also mentioned the building regulations. There are not just fines; there is also imprisonment for breaches of the regulations. All of this will be taken into account as we pursue every possible channel to ensure-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: I agree with Deputy Catherine Martin that it has created a lot of worry and concern and been a body blow to individual communities that were very much part and parcel of ensuring the school projects came to fruition in the first place. I agree completely with her assertion that it is a worrying time, but safety has been at the heart of our deliberations. I remember that when the problem...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: I presume the Department was liaising at every stage with fire safety personnel. Mr. Loftus might come in on what happened before I was in situ, but I know that, once the concern about a potential structural weakness emerged in late August, a team and a programme of work were set in place. The potential concern emerged in Tyrrelstown. Because Ardgillan community college was being assessed...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: That is correct. The reason there are precautionary measures is that there is an ultra cautious approach to the 19 schools. Initial assessments are that there is a suspicion of a lack of wall ties. There is no immediate danger but the judgment was made that there is an issue with structural weakness. For example, there is a three school campus in Ashbourne and the total length of the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: I take the point about whether it is a big programme or an extension. This is an area where I want to ensure we have proper procedures and vigilance in place. I have been comparing it with Northern Ireland and the UK. They have a heavily resourced building control unit in their local authorities. Obviously then it is a question of Exchequer funding because if one tries to replicate that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: My job and the job of everybody else here is to build up that trust again. How we do that is the foremost question on our minds. I answered the question about the partial use of the ground floor. We are expecting to move onto the first and second floors in a matter of weeks. Eiscir Riada in Lucan is a two-storey building so we will be seeking to do that on the first floor and also to do...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: As far as I know I am due to be in the Dáil at 5.30 p.m. I have already had a discussion with my officials on what happens about lost days. There is a reconfiguration option but obviously that is led by the teachers and the school. That is a conversation I am happy to have. What was the Deputy's second question?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: Sorry, the second question was about a Supplementary Estimate.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: We do not have a costing. We do not even have a costing for the temporary remedial work over the last two weeks. Obviously, I will have to deal with that. I will also be talking to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Donohoe, about treating this as an extreme measure. I am treating it as a very extreme measure. At the same time our first port of call is accountability...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: Yes. He or she can check work but does not have responsibility for compliance.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: If there are specifics that I leave out, Mr. Loftus will fill them in for me. Senator Ruane raised a number of practical scenarios, such as a child being locked into a bathroom. This would become an issue if there were a fire. That is where people's concerns are. The standard of the building is paramount. I have been picking up bits of anecdotal information from public representatives...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: I take that point. We tried to ensure this committee was kept informed. That was at one level.

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