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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: They will have done that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Mulligan can understand that I want to go through the nitty-gritty so that people will understand it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: They will have put in some of the network, and at the point when the block is done, the Department will give it a block payment for the work done to date and then pay it as connections happen after the event.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: I just want to understand because there is so much talk. People understand this level of debate.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: Will the company have to finance quite a bit of it at that stage? Mr. Mulligan said it is design, build, construct and finance. I know there will be a subsidy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: I have a quick question for the Comptroller and Auditor General. Has the State done a contract like this before or is this the first of this scale and type? What is the closest to it? Is it the concession for the motorways?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: They will probably be monthly, weekly or regular payments-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: -----of the subsidy from the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am getting that. There will be a Government decision soon on whether to appoint a preferred bidder and this will be the next step. After that, there will be Oireachtas consultation, statements or whatever the process is. We will not decide that here. After that, a contract may be signed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: In recent years, we have had cases of preferred bidders being appointed for major projects for the State in PPPs. People have then changed their plans or approaches, or finance has no longer been available. Up to that point there is no liability to the State in terms of the costs incurred by the potential preferred bidder. The bidder carries the costs until the contract is received. ...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Department will have to approve it if the successful bidder wants to sell on the contract. How about if the successful bidder wants to sell off some of the shares in ownership? They do not sell the contract, but there is a complete change of ownership of the bidder.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: The sale of the contract was-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am distinguishing between the two.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: I presume then if the Department approved it to a suitable major global player-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is the same obligation but, presumably, an onward sale means the Department loses control at that point.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: On every onward sale.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: Eircom changed hands several times. Did the State have control over the onward sales? People will ask these questions. Not the Eircom, the-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: In the interest of protecting the taxpayer, we do not want to find it sold to someone and this happening after the first sale. I give the following parallel. When a local authority sells a house to a tenant, it has to give consent for the first onward sale to ensure it is suitable but it then loses that right on subsequent sales. What I am asking about happens in the public service in Ireland.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: Eir said here that it will be providing the 1.2 million poles and a lot of the infrastructure. It will probably make its money at that end of it even if it is not a final bidder. That is clear. Who sets the charge Eir can impose? Is it the regulator?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Broadband Service Provision: Discussion (Resumed)
(28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: We have not been there yet because we have not had this contract, however. The regulator has not gone there.

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