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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Hospitals have different disciplines, deal with populations of various sizes and have different bed capacities. The State Claims Agency does not publish data on the level of claims of individual hospitals. I imagine the agency will state that it does not keep a league table.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Why not?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Of the 19 maternity hospitals, five are responsible for 56%-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Are they responsible for 56% of the cases or of the money awarded?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: That may be explained by the fact that they perhaps deal with a higher number of births per year. However, surely there would be a correlation in the context of maternity hospitals. They deal with maternity cases. That is easy to explain. There would be some comparison when it comes to the size of awards. It seems to that five hospitals out of a total 19 are responsible for the bulk of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Would it not have the positive effect of acting as a deterrent in the context of poor oversight or governance? Things sometimes have positive and negative effects, and a call must be made. Would a league table relating to maternity hospitals, where many of the claims originate, not have the potential to have a positive effect? I am not a medical person, but I understand that cerebral palsy...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: It is actually 59%, almost 60%, that the six hospitals are responsible for. Does the State Claims Agency have a league table? It has data on this. I welcome that Mr. Breen clarified that the agency goes back to the hospitals and goes through a process. It depends how extensive that is. Mr. Breen clarified that the agency has detailed data that shows the 59% and it has detailed data for...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: How does the agency use the data to identify where progress can be made?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: It is the outstanding liability at this point.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Surely when the SCA looks at its internal data, which are not published, it can be said that there are certain hospitals where there are repeated patterns and a cause for concern. I ask Dr. O'Keeffe to briefly tell me what is done in this context in respect of answering the question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Of course, I understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: All the SCA has been publishing is a league table of the money claims.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Of course, the other areas are for hospital management, the HSE and the Department of Health.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Okay. I call Deputy Catherine Murphy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I thank Deputy Catherine Murphy. I call Deputy Hourigan.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I might return to the need for the pre-action protocol. It was interesting that Mr. Breen raised it. This would help start a case on the right food, reduce legal costs and speed up settlements, but he identified a technical issue here. Will Mr. Dempsey please explain what the issue is and what is being done by the Department to address it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I presume the Department of Health is in communication with the Department of Justice on this.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Will Mr. Dempsey report back that the matter arose at this morning's meeting and has been identified as an issue that needs to be progressed? It is important that it happen, and the Accounting Officer outlined why it is important. We were not aware of it before this meeting. It would be helpful in shortening the period for settling cases but would also help reduce legal costs and might...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency: Discussion
Chapter 20: Management of the Clinical Indemnity Scheme of the Report on the Accounts of Public Services 2021
(2 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Nevertheless, departmental officials can sometimes dictate the speed at which these things move. My next question relates to the overall number of claims. I appreciate that reducing the number of claims is not the agency's job. This was clarified earlier in respect of the medical profession. Are there active engagements, particularly with State bodies in the big four or five areas, with...

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