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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: How long have we been doing this?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: We are not half way there yet.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is normal in shared services. I understand that system too. However, I am surprised that there is still so far to go.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: Send the committee a detailed note on that. You have the information and statistics. People on rent supplement are on the housing list, but people on HAP are not. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: By changing the name from rent supplement to HAP in the coming short period 20,000 people will be taken off the housing lists. You will have the problem solved by changing the name of the scheme.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: They can work.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: I understand that, but the reduction of 13,000 in the number on the housing list is as a result of people moving from rent supplement to HAP. Another 20,000 will come off the national housing waiting list when they are transferred. You understand my point. Am I interpreting it reasonably?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: The regeneration programme was mentioned earlier. There is a small one in Portlaoise and I see the benefit of it. I presume the 200 you mentioned are specific projects, not one here and there. There are probably six or-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: Can you give the committee a list of the ones you are referring to for last year, how many houses were in the areas before regeneration started and how many will be there when it is finished? In some areas there are fewer houses at the end of it, although there might be other facilities. I believe the Deputy was trying to find out if the regeneration figure of 200 is increasing the housing...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: I will be helpful to you. When you are sending us that short report, give us a brief description of each scheme, what is envisaged and the new facilities so we can get the full picture of the scheme. We are examining housing now, but I take your point that there is far more to it. I know that from the scheme in Portlaoise. It will give you the opportunity to give us the full context of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: We are just looking at housing figures and housing stock now. I am almost finished. I am a little rusty on this but does somebody have to be on the housing waiting list to get HAP?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: By and large, it is an income of under €30,000 for most people to be on the housing list. That is not much more than combined social welfare payments. There is very little income.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: Perhaps you will send us that schedule so we are accurate if we are making a comment.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: I understand that people can get employment and they can pay extra. I have never encountered a scheme in which somebody did not have to pay extra, on top of the HAP payment. Are there any cases where the HAP covers the full rent?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: In other words, the landlord is quite happy to take the HAP payment.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: Send the committee statistics on the number of cases where the HAP covers the rent. I know some landlords who are quite happy to take the HAP payment and leave it at that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: In some cases, I am aware of landlords who seek no additional rent. They just take the HAP. Perhaps they are not over-stretched and are happy with that. There are still some good people who are not looking for the last penny from the scheme. My point is that one has to be on a very low income to get into HAP initially. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is that net of income tax?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: However, social welfare income is counted, such as carer's allowance and extra things.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is net income. That is an important distinction. You mentioned that the average cost of building a local authority house last year was €212,000 versus €177,000 for buying. The issue in Laois is that the local authority has eased off on acquisition because it was competing against other local families who were trying to get a start. It could have bought everything in sight...

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