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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Mr. Armstrong’s Department would have communicated a number of times with the Department of Finance in the lead-up to this-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Did Mr. Armstrong’s Department raise concerns as to the impact this would have on house costs at the time?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I am aware of that but when the Department realised that, as bad as house prices are, by the time it took effect this measure potentially would push up house prices by €1,100 and more, did the Department state that pushing up house prices in the middle of a significant crisis might be the wrong thing to be doing?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Does the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage then not share any opinions; good, bad or indifferent?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The Department, however, did not suggest not to proceed on this on the basis of-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Was it the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage that came up with options as to the exclusion of precast concrete? If so, how did that arise? Was it Mr. Armstrong himself and the officials? We have learned that it is because there is a big export market in respect of precast products. I believe the Minister for Finance has stated on the Dáil record that he...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Did the Department of Finance make a recommendation to the Minister on the back of Enterprise Ireland’s views on the exporting of these products?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: We now have a situation where we now have to pay a levy for concrete products that are used by us here in this State but anything that is being exported across the water is not actually being charged with that levy any more. Let us charge those people who are already under serious pressure in respect of building. These exclusions are on the basis that this exclusion from the levy, more than...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: If one excluded blocks, for example, this would have a greater impact on house building here and there would still be lintels, sills, and the buying of slabs if one was not using joists, which would be impacted by the levy. One could then have captured all the export slabs. I will leave this issue at that as the rationale is clear. Obviously, the Government did not want these companies to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Can I just clarify because I do not think I made my point clear here, to assist Ms O’Callaghan? This relates to a person who is producing concrete and selling to the domestic market, which obviously has a levy in place. That person, for example, has one company that has been set up as Pearse Doherty Concrete Supplies Limited but also has a company called Pearse Doherty Precast...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Is poured concrete included?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: There is a certain danger here. In the past, concrete would have been poured into the frames for lintels, left to cure for a while, then taken out and the frames would be used again. If there is a situation with two separate companies rather than one, then the concrete that is being used for the pre-cast will be subject to the charge.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Part 4 of the VAT directive defines poured concrete as the supply of concrete that is ready to pour. It does not suggest that it even has to be in a lorry, just that it is ready to pour. It can come straight out of the batch. It excludes the margin scheme, which is double taxation. It appears that if two companies are operating, with one supplying the concrete to pre-cast, then they are...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I am only looking for the technical analysis. Maybe that is rare, but I wanted to tease out the case of groups of companies. That is allowed in the legislation, where it is a transfer as opposed to a sale.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: That happens quite regularly where there is a small batching plant on the site of a larger development. The policy would cover the poured concrete that is going into the foundation, even though it was not sold.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The same reason that the Revenue Commissioners have captured that applies in the example I have, which is not about a developer but a company manufacturing pre-cast concrete. It is captured even though pre-cast concrete is excluded, since the material going into the moulds is now included. I have significant concerns about this. The witnesses are carrying out the policy of the Government...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I know it was a decision for the Minister, but with respect to the Minister, who may prove me wrong, he is not an expert on autoclaved aerated concrete blocks or whatever else. He relies on the witnesses, as officials who have engaged with the Departments of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and the Environment, Climate and Communications, to make a recommendation to him. I do not...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: It is fine that work on the regulation is ongoing, but do the witnesses acknowledge or have information that the type of product we are talking about is light years ahead of traditional materials? Its U-values, soundproofing and other characteristics are all better. If one wants a passive house, this is the type of product that one would use. The evidence is there. The witnesses might...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The fact of the matter is that if one were to build an apartment now, then instead of using an energy efficient pro-environment block one can use a precast, which is far more carbon intensive, polluting and destructive to the environment. The Department is making a conscious decision today to make it more expensive to use the block that is more environmentally friendly and exempts the other...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Has consideration of the levy been completed or does the Department seek to increase it further to €80 million per annum because it is now no longer near that per annum?