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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. It is the same idea, is it? The Department is just taking a snapshot in time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. We have concluded the all-in costs are in the region of the Department's upper limit of €1,100. However, those are based on September prices and given construction inflation they are likely to increase by the time this takes effect. Is that fair?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate the clarity on that. This is based on a Cabinet decision made over a year ago and outside the officials' bailiwick. As officials in Departments, however, they must give advice to the Ministers on how to give effect to the decision to have an industry contribution. What type of options did they provide to the Ministers on an industry contribution? One of them is the levy...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Those were the four options contained in the paper.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Did the officials look at a levy on the profits of certain companies?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Everybody who has been before the committee previously has acknowledged that this will be passed on by the industry to those who are purchasing homes or building homes for themselves. Do the officials accept that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: It is more likely that if one has a levy on profits, for example, the company can try to increase its profits but would Mr. Hennessy not acknowledge that it is far easier to pass on a levy on a product than it is to do so on profits?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Mr. Hennessy said that the aim here was to bring in €80 million but that is now gone. Is that gone for good or is it gone temporarily because of the kickback from the public in respect of this levy?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Given that there are only two products being levied, which are concrete blocks and the aerated blocks, and that lintels, precast stairs and floors and all the apartments that are being constructed using precast walls are all excluded, the rate did not come down by very much. If everything that had been included in the rate had been reduced to 5%, one would expect a revenue stream of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Did the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage raise any concerns about how we are in the eye of a significant storm in this State in which housing is a crisis and which the President called a disaster? We have so many people in emergency accommodation, house prices are beyond control and inflation is being turbocharged. Did this Department raise concerns that this would push...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Mr. Armstrong’s Department would have communicated a number of times with the Department of Finance in the lead-up to this-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Did Mr. Armstrong’s Department raise concerns as to the impact this would have on house costs at the time?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I am aware of that but when the Department realised that, as bad as house prices are, by the time it took effect this measure potentially would push up house prices by €1,100 and more, did the Department state that pushing up house prices in the middle of a significant crisis might be the wrong thing to be doing?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Does the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage then not share any opinions; good, bad or indifferent?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The Department, however, did not suggest not to proceed on this on the basis of-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Was it the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage that came up with options as to the exclusion of precast concrete? If so, how did that arise? Was it Mr. Armstrong himself and the officials? We have learned that it is because there is a big export market in respect of precast products. I believe the Minister for Finance has stated on the Dáil record that he...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Did the Department of Finance make a recommendation to the Minister on the back of Enterprise Ireland’s views on the exporting of these products?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: We now have a situation where we now have to pay a levy for concrete products that are used by us here in this State but anything that is being exported across the water is not actually being charged with that levy any more. Let us charge those people who are already under serious pressure in respect of building. These exclusions are on the basis that this exclusion from the levy, more than...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: If one excluded blocks, for example, this would have a greater impact on house building here and there would still be lintels, sills, and the buying of slabs if one was not using joists, which would be impacted by the levy. One could then have captured all the export slabs. I will leave this issue at that as the rationale is clear. Obviously, the Government did not want these companies to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Concrete Block Levy: Discussion (26 Oct 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Can I just clarify because I do not think I made my point clear here, to assist Ms O’Callaghan? This relates to a person who is producing concrete and selling to the domestic market, which obviously has a levy in place. That person, for example, has one company that has been set up as Pearse Doherty Concrete Supplies Limited but also has a company called Pearse Doherty Precast...

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