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Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: It is a different system. The banking system sets its interest rates based on a range of factors, including borrowing costs on the interbank and wholesale markets. They are factors. There are other considerations, such as the cost of capital and so on. These issues would not be relevant to the factors that decide the cost of sovereign borrowing. There are differences, but there is some...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: We do at this time. There is borrowing capacity at this time but we cannot assume that it will be available forever. That is why we have to make sure we make the right decisions, that we focus on the recovery of our economy as well as maintaining and improving public services and that we try to bring about greater employment. The current rate of unemployment is 15% but the imposition of...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: I thank Deputy Canney for his very fair question. In normal times, this committee would have more information available to it by way of projections for the next number of years but there is so much uncertainty it is impossible to predict in many respects what is likely to lie before us for next year. To go beyond that, is very much crystal ball gazing but we will need to do it. We have...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: The Deputy asked some fair and good questions and he touched on some really important issues. One of the benefits of setting out five-year capital ceilings is that it gives Departments certainty in terms of the envelope they will have, rather than on a year by year basis. While the national development plan did set them out over the last number of years, we will do so for the next five...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: If I may, I would like to make one further point in regard to the previous question. The Deputy touched on the issue of servicing land. It is a key issue. People often talk about building houses, but there is very little talk about delivering the infrastructure that is needed, including the water and wastewater. This will require funding being provided to Irish Water and the local...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: That is a very good point. As part of the Estimates process, we are working through all of that in detail. I am determined to ensure that, in providing extra money, there is clear delivery of key outputs and there is recognition that we need to make permanent improvements in capacity. That is coming at a time when it is very costly because we have to fund the Covid response in the...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: I thank the Deputy. I had a good exchange with Deputy Mairéad Farrell, which the Deputy may not have heard, on the question of the national development plan, NDP. I will repeat briefly in terms of background. The original budget for capital expenditure for 2020 was €8.1 billion. On an exceptional basis over the course of the current year we allocated a further €1.5...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: As part of the NDP review, we will be looking closely at the alignment of the new NDP that we will prepare with Project Ireland 2040 to make sure it is consistent with the overarching framework for the development of our country and that it is consistent with the programme of Government priorities, which are in health, housing and climate action. I have had a lot of engagement with our...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: I think our economy will need very significant and sustained support over the period ahead. Our public expenditure in 2020 is going to be of the order of €16 billion more than expected and up about 30% compared with the outturn in previous years. Much of that has been gone by way of stimulus measures, employment supports and income supports. In the Department of Employment Affairs...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: I think they are interchangeable. They are certainly interlinked in that the application of a recovery fund is a stimulus to the economy. Certain decisions will need to be made on budget day when we set out the framework for 2021 and outline the level of supports we intend to make available to the economy. However, it is important we have flexibility next year as well because we do not...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: The Deputy is right to highlight the value and the importance of the wage subsidy scheme. Its introduction predates my time in government and credit is due for same. Approximately €2.7 billion has been paid out to date under the scheme, and what we have sought to do in the July stimulus and the decisions we have taken as a Government is to provide the certainty that we can for as...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: I very much take that view, because I think investment such as that serves two purposes. First, those works are needed anyway. The retrofitting of social housing is something that needs done and I know that the Minister for Transport, Deputy Ryan, and the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy O'Brien, have been engaging on that issue, and it is something that we are...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: My Department, in conjunction with all the other Departments, is constantly working on the issue of demographics and the issue of scoping out the cost of the known demographic pressures that we are facing as a country. I know from my time in opposition that the figure often provided for demographics may actually not meet the true cost. In the past number of weeks I have been having a lot of...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: The level of support that we have provided for the economy by way of the economic supports, the liquidity measures that have been provided, and the additional capital investment stands up very well in comparison with our European peers. The data are there to back that up in terms of the quantum of resources per capitathat our Government and the previous Government provided. When it comes to...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: Yes, I think there is. That is the short answer. I want to see Departments spend their capital allocations in full. I do not want to be giving money to Departments and then seeing significant underspends at year end. There can be reasons for that. With Covid, for example, in the whole area of housing and construction, there was a shutdown for a period of time, and we have seen the impact...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: The Deputy made a good point. The various restrictions that have been imposed on people's lives and their quality of life, the loss of employment and the isolation that many people have had to live with over recent months have all had an impact. That is undoubtedly the case. I have been in discussions with the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, about the funding for the new mental health...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: That has been a key issue, as one might expect, in my discussions with the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, in the context of the Estimates for the budget. There has been a significant increase in the funding for homelessness services in recent years and we need to continue with that. There has been some progress on the reduction in the numbers of homeless families and individuals, but...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: I am very familiar with the issue and want to make progress on it. As the Deputy will know, the advice the previous Government received was along the lines that the individuals concerned are not employed by the State and are not public servants as such. The advice was that the issue could have much wider implications throughout the community and voluntary sector, such as for section 39...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: I am not familiar with the detail of that scheme but I will take the matter away and have a look at it with my officials before Tuesday.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Pre-Budget Engagement: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (8 Oct 2020)

Michael McGrath: Earlier this week I brought a memo to the Cabinet with an update on the delivery of infrastructure to prepare for Brexit because my Department is the lead Department for delivering on that infrastructure. This has been ongoing for some time, to be fair, and a great deal of progress has been made. In respect of the 1 January potential cliff-edge date, what needs to be done for that date has...

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