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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: The Deputy should not personalise matters.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Do not personalise your remarks Deputy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Their balance sheets are fairly healthy at the moment. Their profits are up healthily in the past six months. I want to go back to the issue of the levy. There is a 2% levy in place, and there is a substantial amount to be paid off. How long more will that levy on insurance policyholders need to remain in place? That levy is used to fill the gaps left by insurance companies going into...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: That brings me to the next question. Four to five years more would deal with what is there at the moment. One would hope, given the guarantees we are hearing about this morning about a better framework being in place both at a European level and nationally in terms of the regulation of the insurance industry, that we will not have too many of these events in the future. We hope that no...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Sorry, let me clarify my question. Will there be a continuation of the 2% levy, even after all of the claims are settled? Is it the view of the Central Bank that we need to continue with a levy?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Do we have a figure for the reserves in Quinn Insurance at that point in the context of the €1.1 billion gap vis-à-visliabilities?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: So it turned out to be as bad as it looked. I wish to ask Mr. Makhlouf about dual pricing, particularly in the context of motor insurance. He will know that in this Oireachtas my party colleague, Deputy Pearse Doherty, had a particular interest in this issue and did a considerable amount of work on it on foot of evidence received from the public. Loyal customers were being charged more...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Mr. Makhlouf is fairly confident that the measures that have been put in place will be effective. I do not want to misinterpret what his words, but Mr. Makhlouf seems to be stating that if further measures need to be put in place to get on top of this, the Central Bank is willing to act. Is that right?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: That is a space we will be watching. I welcome the fact this is being taken seriously because there is a very serious problem with the premiums being charged and the discrepancy between loyal customers and new ones.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I thank Mr. Hogan for that. Could I ask the Governor about AIB? Seventy branches of it were to go cashless. What happened in relation to that? There was no follow-through on that. Does the Governor have any information on what happened?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Was there any interaction between the Central Bank and AIB in relation to that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: There was not.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: As far as we know, three quarters of the ATM network is no longer under the control of the retail banks. There are independent companies. The ATMs are being sold to ATM companies that are unregulated. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: It has become a serious issue in some other European countries in that the rates being charged for withdrawals at ATM machines are extortionate. The fear here is that three quarters of the companies are not regulated, as far as we could find out before today. Obviously, there is an issue in this regard. The companies need to be regulated because they can charge. People who have been...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I know it is a policy matter but I wish to ask about going cashless. A large section of the public is absolutely terrified of that. A lot of people are not terrified about it but do not want it because they feel that, if they are buying a cup of coffee, they do not really need the bank manager with them. They feel they can deal with the shop assistant and keep the transaction between the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Are there moves at higher official level in the Central Bank to nudge things along in a cashless direction, or does Mr. Makhlouf feel it is good we still have cash?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I do not expect Mr. Makhlouf to have detailed knowledge or figures on my next question. From his sense of trends from having been on the board of the European Central Bank, does he believe the countries that are hanging on to cash, or maybe going back a little towards it, are mainly eastern European?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: From Mr. Makhlouf's answer, particularly his reference to Germany and Sweden, it is not necessarily the poorer, emerging economies in eastern Europe that are reverting more to cash. Mr. Makhlouf is saying that some of the wealthier countries that have higher GDPs, like Germany, are doing it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: In terms of Ireland-----

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