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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: May I ask the Chairman for two points of clarification? They will inform my questioning of Mr. Fraser. Will the Chairman confirm whether the new Secretary General of the Department of Health has agreed to participate in these hearings?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: He has not confirmed or refused.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: Just to clarify, he has not declined or accepted. Is that fair to say?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: I would interpret that as a refusal. Has the Taoiseach responded to his invitation to participate?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: That is grand. I thank the Chairman. I welcome Mr. Fraser. As he will see from those two answers, it is impossible for this committee and the delegation from the Committee of Public Accounts to have the sort of transparent process needed to debate and consider these matters when the relevant Secretary General believes he has nothing to do with the process and the Taoiseach of the day has...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: He served with the relevant candidate in what was then the Department of Social Welfare way back.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: Did Mr. Fraser serve with the relevant person?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: Yes. Mr. Robert Watt.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: I am sorry, but we are perfectly entitled to use names.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: That is why parliamentary privilege exists, as I am sure Mr. Fraser knows. I was going to-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: I know from my experience of 19 years, and Mr. Fraser knows from his longer experience in the public service, that we are well entitled to use names. We will just take that as read.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: Will Mr. Fraser confirm that he served with the now Secretary General of the Department of Health as a more junior officer in the then Department of Social Welfare? Would that be fair to say?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: The two of them never served together.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: I am sorry. I thought he was.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: I got that wrong.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: Does Mr. Fraser believe it is appropriate for him to be on the TLAC, having served with the Secretary General?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: Does Mr. Fraser believe that is appropriate?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Remuneration of Senior Civil Servants: Discussion (2 Jun 2021)

Marc MacSharry: Sure.

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