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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Neither was I. It is not that I was not listening attentively, but I was researching some matters. The individual in question took a case in respect of the promissory notes which was dismissed on the basis of the State's defence to the effect that he did not have standing. The court ruled that he would have had to be a Deputy. Subsequently, a Deputy took a case and it went that route. In...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: In the past Mr. Carville worked for KPMG, one of the major firms in the country with a super reputation and so on. While I do not want to focus on him personally, I will ask him to compare something in the private sector with the public sector. Did he work at the level of partner or manager?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Are all Mr. Carville's colleagues accountants? No. Was anyone else in KPMG or any of those places? How many people are in the legal department of a company like KPMG?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Mr. Carville said to the Chairman earlier that there are one solicitor and two whole-time equivalents from a legal perspective on this.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: What did the Chairman ask earlier?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Does Mr. Carville's team have liquidation specialists?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: How many would have handled-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: One person worked for Arthur Cox on the liquidation side.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: At what level did that person work while with Arthur Cox?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Associate director level.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I know some people who work there. Some are partners - equity partners. There are associate partners and then there are all the other levels.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Okay. We have one liquidation specialist on the team. Would it be fair to say this is the biggest liquidation in the history of the State?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Okay, and we have one specialist on that. The Department has two whole-time equivalents and a solicitor full time on it, and Mr. Carville moves resources around as required.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I wonder what KPMG would charge out if it was doing it. I wonder how many partners, directors, senior directors it would use. I would say it would be billing us more than two whole-time equivalents, a solicitor and a specialist.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: It just does not inspire confidence. That is against the backdrop of the parliamentary questions. I said I would refer back to those. One of my parliamentary questions in September related to the frequency of meetings of the committee - these are the update committees. The answer stated that in 2016 there were eight such update meetings. At that stage in 2017 - up to 20 September - there...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: As a result, there were fewer meetings. I am trying to understand the whole process and procedure around liquidation. We move resources when they are required. We have one liquidation specialist, two whole-time equivalents and a solicitor. It is less important to have those formal update meetings in 2017 because the Department is not as busy with that issue as was the case in 2016. It...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: It sounds to me like reactive rather than proactive oversight.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Is there a Department of Finance process and are there procedures written down for the liquidation of the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, IBRC, for example, whereby periodically one of the staff goes there and someone rings everybody in KPMG to ask these questions? Is there a checklist that is routinely checked or are we depending on parliamentary questions from me or Deputy Catherine...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: The Act does not provide for a committee of inspection and is very broad and vague.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Cost of Bank Stabilisation Measures as at the end of 2016
Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Liquidation
(14 Dec 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I agree. I wish I had been more on top of this matter when I was a Member of the Seanad as I would definitely have taken issue with it.

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