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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: It does not seem like the HSE has a solution to the problem and if it does, it is not working.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: In regard to the National Ambulance Service, there has been a huge increase in population in Wexford alone, so I assume the CHO 5 area has had an increase. Can the committee have a note on how the HSE is catering for the increase in population through the NAS? Currently, in Wexford, 160 people with special needs are awaiting dental treatment under anaesthesia. Pre Covid, there were two...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: Will our guests please do so? This is very important. These are very vulnerable people. I am sure that at the level of our salaries, we have never had to wait to see a dentist. I cannot imagine what it is like for these people but they keep coming back with the same problem and I have not been able to get an answer to it. Mr. Mulvany was the chief financial officer prior to taking up...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: When Mr. Mulvany says "making progress", when did the HSE start that? According to anything I have read from the Comptroller and Auditor General, it is going the wrong way, not the right way.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: In that case, let me read out what the Comptroller and Auditor General wrote.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: I want an answer to the question I asked. How does it sit with Mr. Mulvany, as the former chief financial officer?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: In that case, the Comptroller and Auditor General is incorrect, given that is what was written.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: The note refers to 36,000 invoices and states the estimated total expenditure on invoices over €20,000 is in the order of €2.37 billion. That is 56% of the HSE's procurable spend in 2021.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: The Comptroller and Auditor General is of the view that the estimated rate of non-compliance may not accurately represent the scale of the underlying problem of non-compliant procurement for a number of reasons, and Mr. Mulvany has agreed those reasons already.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: To what extent is the HSE making progress?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: We will see a significant improvement in the next accounts, therefore.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: That brings me to the Covid personal protective equipment, PPE. It was just a disaster but there is one issue I do not understand. Why do we have so much hand sanitiser that is considered useless? Why is it useless? It contains alcohol. Does it go off?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: That is not what I asked Mr. Mulvany.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: I appreciate Mr. Mulvany's point. My question concerns how much obsolete PPE that we cannot use we are storing and how much it costs.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: Why does the HSE know that now but did not know it when it was purchasing the product? Is Mr. Mulvany saying it did not meet the technical specification?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: I do not have time for this.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: How much is it costing to store all this obsolete equipment?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: Is that to store it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: When Mr. Mulvany says "alternative use", it is obsolete for us, so what would be the alternative use? Will it, like the ventilators, be sent abroad?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Verona Murphy: It is not about being argumentative. This is costing money and it is about-----

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