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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Mental Healthcare Sector: Discussion (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Accordingly, an international best practice target would be in excess of 8.24%. What would that figure be?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Mental Healthcare Sector: Discussion (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: We are pretty far behind.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Mental Healthcare Sector: Discussion (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Successive Governments have chipped away at it ever since the 1980s. With regard to the suppression of the post for national lead, who is currently driving national policy in mental health?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Mental Healthcare Sector: Discussion (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Yet Mr. Farrelly is confident enough that we need to work a bit harder on PMDS. Who would Mr. Farrelly see as the person who would drive that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Mental Healthcare Sector: Discussion (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: We have just established that there is no person in a position of leadership, however. Does Mr. Farrelly see this being driven at local level?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Mental Healthcare Sector: Discussion (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: From my background and previous work, I have a fairly detailed knowledge of PMDS, particularly development aspect of it. There are a number of factors involved. Clearly, it is unfair and unreasonable to expect that staff will participate in PMDS in a situation where many of the failings are the result of understaffing and under-resourcing. It is tough in that environment. It is also...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Mental Healthcare Sector: Discussion (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: There are particular staffing issues in the health service. We would be ignoring the elephant in the room if we did not mention them. I do not think one can make a direct comparison. The Public Service Pay Commission specifically focused on issues relating to the health service in view of the challenges and difficulties around recruitment and retention, a nice way of saying that the health...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Health Sector: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: The committee will now resume its review of workforce planning in the health sector and receive an update from the SIPTU trade union. I welcome, from SIPTU, Mr. Paul Bell, divisional organiser; Ms Michelle Monahan, honorary vice president; Mr. Kevin Figgis, sector organiser; and Ms Marie Butler, sector organiser. I draw the attention of witnesses to the fact that by virtue of section...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Health Sector: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Absolutely. I thank Mr. Bell for his comprehensive submission. Before I bring in members of the committee, I wish to ask a few questions. I ask Mr. Bell to give us some insight. We know that workforce planning is tricky in the short term. It is probably even tricker in the long term. I will mention two issues to illustrate that. In the long term, we have Sláintecare, and in the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Health Sector: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: What about the level of engagement, involvement and consultation with regard to Sláintecare?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Health Sector: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: That is a nice round figure in any event. We discussed the moratorium with representatives of the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation when they were here last week. I suppose there is a bit of a misnomer with that. People think the moratorium is a new thing that was imposed recently. Does Mr. Bell estimate that a full recovery was made from the moratorium that was imposed in 2007? Did...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Health Sector: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: That is something we are hearing right across the board.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Health Sector: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: That brings me on to my next question, which relates to the increase in the number of hours being provided by agency staff. It is estimated that up to 500,000 working hours are being worked by such staff. Will Mr. Bell give us an indication of the level of increase in recent years? More crucially, is he aware of a value for money audit of the purchase of such labour, as opposed to directly...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Health Sector: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Reference was made to staff being lost to the private sector. I presume they are following the NTPF money into the private sector.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Health Sector: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: If there were a shift involving proper, sustained investment in the public service as opposed to the private sector, would the staff come back? Is there capacity to attract them back? Some of them have gone abroad and maybe we have to draw a line in that regard. More, however, have gone to the private sector here. In the event that we made the requisite investment, would we get them back?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Health Sector: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: What was the names of the report Ms Monahan referenced. It might be useful for us to have it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Health Sector: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I thank Ms Monahan for that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Health Sector: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: In my experience, HR departments might as well be issued with water tenders because their job is to put out fires caused by understaffing. Some of the most sophisticated arrangements are in place in that employment, such as on the national joint council and others. The problems are wide. It is not in the gift of anyone within the HR department, with the best will in the world, to resolve...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Health Sector: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: With respect, there is probably a limit to how much value we will get out of that because I do not think there will be-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Workforce Planning in the Health Sector: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Nov 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I do not intend to dispute that at all. Has Deputy Durkan further questions?

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