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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: That is the same answer the Minister gave when we were trying to encourage him to bring in a rent cap in the first place. Does the Minister remember that one? He comes in here as if we forget everything he has said in the past. The Government was forced to introduce a rent cap at 2%. The leader of Fine Gael, Mr. Spin himself, says it is effectively a ban on rent increases. Is the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I am fully aware of what is happening in Berlin.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister is always very careful with his words. He said that there is a risk, but that is not what he was saying before when he said it was very likely that there would be a transfer of Exchequer funding directly to landlords. The Taoiseach said that the tax credit would only add to the price of rents and that it would be inflationary. The Minister's officials are telling him that what...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The rent cap is out, Minister.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: It exists in Scotland. The Minister does not have to go to Berlin. As far as I know, Berlin does not have a rent cap. It was overturned, was it not?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The point is that if you come in here half-cocked and with the full information-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: It does not exist.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Will the Minister explain again how the Department arrived at the figure that 400,000 people are eligible to apply for this credit? It started with a figure of 613,000 provided by the CSO and subtracted from that the supported accommodation, reducing the figure to 513,000 or something similar. A rate of 75% was then applied to that. Is that correct?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: What was the rationale behind the figure of 75%?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: There is no way to know how many children are in supported tenancies. Is that correct?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Sorry. Of the 613,000, there is no way of figuring out how many of those are children. Is that correct?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The CSO also says the figure of 613,000 is underestimated because landlords usually only register one tenant or one PPSN. Is that not also the case?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: There is, therefore, quite a bit of extrapolation and a wee bit of guesstimation. Would the Minister agree?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Should that not be tenants?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: We know how many tenancies there are.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Where did the additional 18,000 come from?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: When the CSO tells us that the starting figure of 613,000 tenants is an underestimation, what does the Minister do to deal with that fact?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I thank the Minister for taking me through this. I expect there is some guesstimation in relation to this but that it is not a major issue. I will go back to the issue of the advice the Minister got from the Department. From all the documents I have seen, the Department officials have been clear to the Minister that the likely scenario here, to quote his officials, is that the rational...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: That is fair enough and that is the Minister's prerogative as Minister for Finance. I would never suggest that a Minister in any Department should be bound completely by the advice of officials but I asked the question given that it was the Minister's own position and he has made a massive U-turn in the space of 12 months. That would be welcome if he went the full hog. I will leave it at...

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