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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Borris-in-Ossory is a case in point. There is some interesting work there with the old courthouse.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: It might be useful for the committee, and also for local authority members, to have a synopsis of all the different strands of funding and what they can be used for. More and more of these get announced. To be honest, if someone asked me, I would have to refer to something to find out which ones cover what. Could the Department supply the committee with the different funding streams for...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Is Ms Hurley familiar with the concept of community wealth building?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: That is good. I was hoping we would be making a start on it. Ms Hurley will be aware that in some jurisdictions, including the other jurisdiction on the other part of this island which may be more advanced than we are on it. Preston in England has been involved in it for a few years. North Ayrshire was a bit slower to start. Has the Department met with any officials from Preston or North...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I do not disagree that money is going in, but community wealth-building is essentially trying to capture that money so there is a spend within the local economy and that it creates its own dynamics. Certain ethics around environmental and social matters and labour rights come into play. Cognisance is taken of those. What has happened in Preston has been remarkable. I have looked at it and...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Could I address a question to Ms Brassil from the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform? One problem that arises in this is the procurement rules. Of course there has to be competitive tendering but, no matter how much the Department pumps in, if the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform's rules are so...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Ayrshire and Preston were within the EU up until relatively recently. Preston in particular deployed methods for community wealth building and retaining money in communities that can create its own dynamic within them and strengthen local economies. If one looks at what is happening across Ireland, money is leaking out of many rural areas. I know we cannot have a utopia where everything...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: That is helpful. Is the Department of Rural and Community Development aware that the Minister for Communities in the North had commissioned and published a report on community wealth building?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Is anyone in the Department aware of that? I do not mean to be smart about it but that may be worth looking at. In the Six Counties, the economy is not that different. Belfast is the largest city, Derry is a smaller city, then there are a number of other large towns such as Omagh and other different places with populations of between 30,000 and 50,000 or 60,000. I ask that it be looked...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: The witnesses are aware of community wealth building. Is that something that happened internally between officials or is there political impetus for it? Maybe Mr. Geraghty might address it.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I know Mr. Geraghty has to be careful how he answers this, but is he being asked to pursue this politically?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: It may come up in the future, given that it has proved itself in other areas. It is good to hear that the work is being done by the Department already. I am encouraged to hear that. I have a question for Ms Hurley on the town and village renewal fund and funds that go to local authorities. One issue that has been raised by officials in different local authorities a couple of times is...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: There is absolute confusion about it. It also would be useful to have that for local authority members to know what funds there are, what they can be used for and what the upper and lower limits are. It just needs to be a brief note. It does not have to be long. The Committee of Public Accounts would then be aware of it too.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: That is good. The Department of Rural and Community Development administers the community recognition fund. It is a new fund. How many local authorities have applied for it?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Typically, what is the cost of a project?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: Many of the areas they are going to are already economically disadvantaged. Forty families moved into modular accommodation in Rathdowney, County Laois. It has been positive, by and large. The areas they are going into, such as Rathdowney, have a low level of economic development and there is not much economic activity ,apart from agriculture and sectors related to agriculture. If further...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: And the local council

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: That concludes the questioning. I thank the witnesses and staff from the Departments of Rural and Community Development and Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform and representatives from Pobal for their work in preparing for today's meeting. Ms Hurley has not been in her job for long, has she?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I wish her luck. It is the first time she has appeared before the committee.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Brian Stanley: I also thank the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, and Mr. Mullen for attending and for the work they and their staff in the Public Gallery have done and for the materials supplied to the committee. Is it agreed that the clerk will seek any follow-up information and carry out any actions agreed at the meeting? Agreed. Is it also agreed that we note and publish the...

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