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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: It does not apply to anybody else. The salary is for whoever comes through the open Top Level Appointments Committee, TLAC, process. There is nobody currently being paid the €292,000.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: I believe it is one part of the overall context within which the decision was made. I said that earlier so I do not need to repeat it. There was certainly a recognition that when it comes to a senior leadership role in a hugely challenging and highly complex area we need to attract the very best candidates from all over the world. This salary was designed with a view to doing that. That...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: We are well on the way towards the full rewinding of FEMPI at this stage. Back in October, we had the full unwinding, for example, for all of those earning up to €70,000. There is what is called the long tail of FEMPI for the higher earners. In July of this year, there will be the unwinding of FEMPI for those between €70,000 and €150,000. In 2022, there will be the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: I do not because we are coming to the end of FEMPI, as I have outlined. All low and middle-income public service workers have been fully reinstated at this point. We will have further restoration for higher earners in July of this year and then the final restoration for the highest earners in July 2022. Those dates are effectively set out in law. I would have had to issue orders before...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: Anyone can apply for the role. The closing date has passed. I do not know who has applied nor do I want to know. I have full faith in the process that it will be fair and objective. We have some outstanding people serving on the Top Level Appointments Committee. Many of them are private citizens who are doing a valuable job for the State. I have no doubt they will do their business...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: That is not what we have done. I think I answered that earlier. The enhanced salary does not apply to anyone currently and will only apply to whoever is appointed ultimately following the conclusion of the open process. That will take a number of weeks or months. Does Mr. Moloney wish to give a brief overview of how the PAS and TLAC stage will work in practice and how it comes to an end?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: I thank the Senator for her questions and her contribution. As she said, it falls on me ultimately to make decisions on salary. For the vast majority of positions across the public service, it is done on a collective basis in relation to agreements entered into. As the Senator is aware, balloting is under way at present for the proposed new public service pay deal. For certain very senior...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: As I said earlier, the way in which the proposed deal has been designed is to the benefit of those on lower levels of income. I will not reiterate all the points but the Senator touched on the minimum benefit, whereby each time there is an increase of 1%, it will equate to a minimum of €500. That is a significant change. There is also the sectoral bargaining element, from which many...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: I thank Senator Higgins for her questions. We certainly want to raise the floor. That is very important and it is why the new public service pay deal is structured in the way that it is following the agreement we reached with the trade unions. It remains to be seen what the outcome of that agreement will be in the coming weeks. I certainly share that objective. We want to make sure the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: There was one attempt to fill that post, which was unsuccessful. That is a reality we have to face up to. The post was subsequently filled and the incumbent is doing an exceptional job. We are getting value for money.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: The only point I would make in response to the fair point the Senator makes is that we are talking about two posts that are not only in the same sector but are directly linear and hierarchical in that the Secretary General of the Department of Health is the Accounting Officer with full legal responsibility for all of the expenditure that goes through the HSE. I take her point but there is a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: On the justification and the reasons given, Covid is but one reason, but it is an important one. Covid will be with us for quite a while yet, unfortunately. The new Secretary General in the Department of Health will play a really important leadership role in respect of the vaccination programme and assisting the HSE in dealing with the fallout from Covid in day-to-day terms, but it should...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: I thank the Senator for his questions. I do not think it would be fair of me to get into the detail about any individual. There was, as the Senator said, an acting Secretary General within the Department who worked very closely with the Minister at the time, which was one of huge pressure and challenge. It was listed as one of the four options set out in the minutes of that meeting. The...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: I think it might be best if we allow an actual acting Secretary General, Mr. Moloney, to come in on that to spell out what the lines of responsibility are.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: I thank Deputy O'Callaghan for his comment, with which I agree. A concern about potential knock-on consequences is, of course, shared by many people. Considering the role and statutory power I have, it falls on me to withstand that. As I said, that would certainly be my intention. This is an exceptional position given the level of responsibility and the role it plays in Irish society...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: That is a handwritten note I have provided to the committee because I believe it is important that members have access to all the key documents. I believe the date on that note is 15 December. The booklet referred to by that handwritten note does not contain the specific salary because no decision had been made at that point. Obviously, as Secretary General of the Department of Public...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: To be honest, I am not sure. Robert Watt certainly would have known that there was a willingness to go beyond the standard terms but I would not have engaged directly in respect of the specific salary for the reasons I have outlined, namely, that it would be for the assistant secretary in terms of pay and Martin Fraser in the Department of the Taoiseach. I did my bit but I think that was a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: Yes, that is correct. They are grades 1, 2 and 3.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: The Taoiseach would have contacted Robert Watt, I would say, in the very early days of January. Mr. Watt contacted me and informed me that the Taoiseach had asked him to move across on an interim basis. I had known that was a possibility but that was the point at which it actually materialised. I made it clear that I would not stand in the way if that was deemed to be the best thing for...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: I think he would have known it was a possibility.

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