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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: I would not accept that there is a comparable position in respect of which it would be possible to make an equivalent case. Of course, I accept the Tánaiste's point that it could lead to other requests and demands on pay. It has not done so at this point, nor do I expect it to, but if it did -----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: Yes, but if it did, I would not envisage that a case could be made of the same nature and quality. There are other examples across the public service. Did the enhanced salary for the Commissioner of An Garda Síochána result in the deputy and assistant commissioners being paid a lot more? It did not. When the CEO of the HSE got a greatly enhanced salary, did that result in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: They are doing phenomenal work, I know that the Deputy and I absolutely agree on that. We are in the middle of balloting on a possible new public service pay deal. I hope it is ratified, that remains to be seen. The Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation, INMO, and other unions which represent nurses will play their part and conduct the process as they see fit. I am of the view that this...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: -----that had been cut, in addition to the restoration of overtime rates that had been cut previously under past agreements. These are all measures that undoubtedly favour people on low and middle incomes throughout the public service. That is as it should be.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: May I respond briefly?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: Yes, absolutely, but first I will very briefly respond to Deputy Barry. In recent months, we have had the final payment under the public service stability agreement of 2%, which went to all public servants. With regard to pay pressures that will possibly follow this decision about one post, the Deputy has to judge us on the decisions we make, if and when those pressures arise. To the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: I have a right to reply and I will come to the Chairman's question. I am just making the point that if we adopted and implemented the policies of Deputy Barry in respect of public service pay, we would not have Paul Reid as head of the HSE or Drew Harris as Garda Commissioner. That is just the reality. They may be uncomfortable but those are the facts.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: Of course. Members have read the minutes of the meeting from the end of October and, as pointed out, the catalyst or origin was a request by the Minister for Health to have a discussion on the position of Secretary General in his Department. As members know, the post was vacated in June of last year, when the serving Secretary General moved to another Department. For the period since,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: The correspondence speaks for itself in that sense.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: I should make the point that one of the options discussed at the meeting of 30 October was that an existing Secretary General could possibly move across to the Department of Health by way of transfer. We had a full and open discussion at that meeting and different names were mentioned of existing Secretaries General who may or may not have been suitable or interested in doing it. Mr. Watt...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: That is correct.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: There is a formal Government decision of 6 January on the appointment of Mr. Watt on an interim basis.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: Every appointment of a Secretary General must go before the Government.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: The issue of salary is a matter for the Minister.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: The Taoiseach gave an update to the Cabinet on that day and informed us that Mr. Watt was to move across to the Department of Health on an interim basis and that there would be an open and competitive TLAC process for the permanent post.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: That was delivered verbally. Decisions can be made in that way. One does not have-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: Yes. It was a contribution by An Taoiseach which was loud and clear. Everyone heard it and it was noted as a formal Government decision. Government decisions are circulated to Departments after the event and such a decision does exist.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: I thank the Deputy. Yes-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

Michael McGrath: I thank the Deputy. Will he clarify the first part of his question? When he says "this particular appointment" is he referring to the salary associated with the open competition now or the interim-----

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