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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: From Pepper?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: Just for Pepper, please.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: Will Mr. Ryan give us some numbers around all of those? Will he provide the committee with some numbers and the detail around those numbers having regard to the length of time Pepper has worked with the customers? It is just to give us a flavour of what Pepper does.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: I ask Mr. Ryan to break them down for us relative to Pepper and its activities here since 2012. I refer to Pepper's use of receivers for a different cohort of customers. Does Pepper use receivers a lot?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: I understand that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: I understand. I am just asking. I note the type of information to which Deputy Michael McGrath referred earlier which comes to committee members. People tell us that from 2012 or 2013 onwards, it has been extremely difficult to get in touch with Pepper. Others say Pepper has never engaged with them. We are told receivers are appointed and there is then no engagement with them. Receivers...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: Let me be clear about it. The reason I raise it here is that Mr. Ryan says how good and customer-focused Pepper is. He referred to Pepper's desire first and foremost to keep people in their homes. That is its goal. However, the experience of those who have contacted the committee has been that there were no negotiations. On the business side, it has been a matter of no negotiations and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: Pepper says "Hello, how are you?", the customer says "I am looking for all of my paperwork under FOI" and Pepper says "Go to a solicitor." That is in another email. I do not think these are made up. I think these are from different people. Pepper then presses them into court. The first court date is in 2018 and the next hearing is November 2019. It seems to me from this that Pepper is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: Can Mr. Ryan give us the contact details so that those people might email Pepper instead of emailing me?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: We seem to be dealing with Jekyll and Hyde. Pepper has this split personality going on where the commercial properties are dealt with one way while it is real nice and kind to the others. I do not get it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: I wish to ask Mr. Masding how many loans in this sale were transfers where the negotiated position with PTSB is for a period of three, six or 12 months.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: I am referring to instances where PTSB is engaging with the customer and has reached a conclusion that it is going to give him or her this arrangement and review it in three, six or 12 months. How many of those will be transferred to Pepper? Are all of these loans long-term agreements?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: Every one of them?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: What does Mr. Masding mean by "long-term agreement"?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: In terms of the period we are talking about, there could be some that will be reviewed in three or five years but there are no short-term, six or 12-month-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: So there is nobody whose loan is being transferred who, in a few months or a year, will find themselves being contacted by Pepper to say their time is up and that it wants to talk to them about the arrangement they have.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: No, it is a question for PTSB. How many of these loans has the bank negotiated whereby when they are transferred to Pepper, it can review these loans negatively? I doubt it would review anything positively.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: As Mr. Crowley checks that, I suggest we take a comfort break for five or ten minutes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

John McGuinness: We will resume our meeting in public session. I call Senator Horkan.

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