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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I ask the Minister to give me an example of what is being done to allay the fears of a customer who is getting messages on his or her phone asking him or her to click into something and put in PIN details. What will this directive do in relation to these thousands of successful instances and tens of thousands of attempted instances on a monthly basis?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: How would the Minister assess the Government's success or failure in combating financial crime and fraud?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: A recommendation which came out of the plan was that there should be a multi-annual strategy to combat economic crime and corruption and an accompanying action plan. Was that published?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, combating economic crime and corruption. It came out of the Hamilton report recommendations.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I ask the Minister to follow up with the committee on that because public consultation was supposed to happen. It was not a secret document or anything. We need a cross-governmental multi-annual financial crime strategy and the Department of Finance should be at the heart of it. It needs to include our online agencies, banking representatives, the Garda and the Department of Justice, but I...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: For what reason are the board papers of AIB sent to the Minister and his Department?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Is the Minister saying that when the official was made aware that AIB proposed to withdraw cash services from 70 branches, he or she kept that information to himself or herself?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister says that the official was not aware of the public impact of this at the time. Obviously, the public across the State, nearly to a man and to a child, was against this proposal. It caused deep outrage and anger. Was the official aware from the board pack that there was a proposal before the board meeting to withdraw cash services from 70 branches in AIB?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Hang on. Let me get this right. The Minister has said that the Department was not aware of the impact that this would have on the public because the official did not read that at that time. However, the CEO of the bank told us that the papers sent to the Minister and the Department included the board papers which proposed to withdraw cash services from 70 branches of AIB. Is the CEO...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Okay so-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: That is fine. I appreciate that it was not a one-item board.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Hang on a second. I am just pulling the Minister up on this here. The Department was made aware of this before the board met. Let us deal with accuracy here. I have done the freedom of information request. I know the communication that the Department received on the Friday; it was the press release that was issuing. Let us be fair. The CEO came in here and told us that the board pack...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Facts.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: No.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I am not.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Just to help the Minister, I am not suggesting that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: That was meant for-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I am not disputing that. That is what I was trying to get to in the first instance.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: No, it is not but let me make the point-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I am not trying to do that. With respect, the Minister should let me ask the question. The question I asked the Minister in the first instance was whether his official was made aware of this plan before the board meeting and, if so, whether it is the case that he or she did not inform the Minister of it. If I were in the Minister's position as Minister for Finance, and I discovered that an...

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