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Written Answers — Department of Finance: Licensed Moneylenders (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: 70. To ask the Minister for Finance his plans for a cap on moneylender interest rates; the reports he has commissioned on the matter; his further plans to make such reports public; when they will be made public; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25322/19]

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: I welcome all of the witnesses and I am delighted that we are talking about this issue. I have been raising many questions in this area for some time, including some weeks ago in the Dáil with the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, who accused me of frightening people. What we have heard today justifies my raising of the issue. I have also tabled a number of specific...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: Taking the current deficits and historical deficits of the organisations represented here, up to the end of 2017, we are talking about a figure of €30 million, at least.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: And it may be higher.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: That gives us an insight into the scale of the issue with which we are dealing. Other organisations are not members of the umbrella groups present and, therefore, we can increase that overall total for deficits. It would not be an exaggeration, therefore, to state that in 2019 the historical and current funding deficit overall is somewhere in the region of €40 million.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: That figure needs to be out there. Another issue concerns the hands-off approach of the Department of Health. That is obvious. It outsources responsibility to the HSE. The HSE then works with the umbrella groups to outsource service provision to the member organisations. The witnesses have outlined in detail how they have to balance corporate governance, company law and trading...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: That is very good. The fait accompli comes out in written format and Ms Keogh is told to sign it by X date. There is no negotiation. They do not tolerate negotiation. Is that the case?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: Is that consistent with all Ms Keogh's experiences?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: That is a fair point.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: To be fair, that is a good qualification. If Ms Keogh does not sign it, she gets a 20% cut. In that scenario, service provision and so on is hit.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: Perfect, and rightly so. In other words, the deficit grows and we get hit for this €40 million. I want to get into the way the HSE helps with cashflow and loans. Mr. O'Regan might talk me through what happens as regards how the HSE then facilitates organisations with loans because for me, this is incredible stuff and it will validate what I said earlier.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: The numbers do matter to the public watching this meeting. This is Mr. O'Regan's forum-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: What scale of loans are we talking about?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: Are we taking in the millions of euro in some cases?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: The public is not aware of this. That sort of information goes across the scale of this issue.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: It just gets worse from year to year.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: Is the loan from the HSE a continuation of the funding it gives to the organisation or is it a loan with interest?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: I wanted to clarify that. It is a straight loan.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: It is a roll-over.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Voluntary Organisations in the Health Sector: Discussion (19 Jun 2019)

Alan Kelly: In January. They are already hitting a problem in January.

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