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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: Working cross-Government has not been easy and we have not been good at it in this country. The Deputy is absolutely right to ask if a global ambition that requires everyone to move will be treated by people as an added extra and not their core work. The key to that not happening is the mandate of the Taoiseach and the decision of Government, both of which I have received. These...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: The role of the Committee on Climate Action is a matter for the Oireachtas, not for me. The Committee on Climate Action has a fixed term and a mandate to deliver. There is no doubt that the oversight of my Department, whether it reverts back to the standard committee or remains under this single purpose committee, will stand and fall over whether we successfully deliver on the climate...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: I do not think that is fair. The national mitigation plan was produced in July 2017, which is some time ago. The numbers tell their own story. For a while, due to the impact of the recession, Ireland looked as if it was going well. It was when the recovery came that we realised that the type of structural change that needed to happen had not happened. The national mitigation plan was the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: I agree with the Deputy. When I was the Minister for Education and Skills, although we included retrofit energy as a big part of the ten-year plan, I also had to say most days that getting bums on seats was my top priority and that I had to cater for 20,000 more pupils than in the previous year. One of the messages Robert Watt is signalling is that this must change and that there must be a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: To be fair, the national mitigation plan published in July 2017, and a great deal of work preceded it, set out clear directions. It outlined the spheres where we have to make changes and what changes needed to occur. It has rightly been criticised for not being a roadmap. The climate advisory committee is a strong critic that what we need is a proper roadmap, not a series of signposts, but...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: The funding was only 10%. It is a €175 million programme in that case and the funding was-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: Yes, it will have to be funded elsewhere so-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: This is a very rapid payback. Funding of lighting would not be at the challenging end of funding. Obviously, the Department and the local authorities must come up with how they fund it. This was priming the pump to get something done to make an impact on climate change. As it is well developed, they will be borrowing for it, which is natural enough. It is the type of area where one can...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: It is certainly not a phrase I coined, but Teagasc gives a fair start to the explanation. Although I have agriculture in my background I will not pretend I understand it but it has outlined proposals that have-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: I will deal with that question if the Senator has the time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: My understanding is that Teagasc has set out a framework where that phrase would be defined. It has different areas relating to biofuels, afforestation and sequestration through afforestation and a section on farm methods. From memory, each of the three has the potential to deliver 3 million tonnes in reduction from agriculture from a 20 million tonnes base. It is very significant if they...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: I presume taking 9 million tonnes from the 20 million tonnes would be an approach to carbon neutrality. One would not be there yet.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: The challenge there is how to implement those changes. They are technically possible but how does the sector take them on board, take ownership of that agenda and deliver it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: One has to be careful with what targets are put in legislation. If one says it is fair that every sector takes a 30% cut, the cost of that in some sectors may be dramatically different from others. One has to be careful in setting a target because one then forces perhaps a very high-cost solution in one sector. We were just talking about agriculture. The impact of setting the same target...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: Did Senator Mulherin not get there on time?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: I do not have a pathway for agriculture. In each sector we have to work out these pathways. The Senator made the point rightly that Irish agriculture is more efficient in milk production and that the carbon intensity of milk is lower in Ireland than anywhere else, but the EU still had to set national targets. Where there were big sectors such as this, they brought them inside the emissions...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: It would be impossible for the EU to devise for that. In Ireland alone we have 350,000 enterprises so it would be very difficult if we multiply this by 27 member states. It would be very difficult to have cap and trade targets for all of those multiple sectors. It would be very difficult to administer. The reason cap and trade was done was there were a small number of large producers and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: This goes to the heart of it. This is why we have a Paris Agreement. This is why it has to be a multilateral approach. The Senator is absolutely right that the country that decides to do nothing and be a free rider enjoys an improved environment if every other country in the world takes their responsibility seriously, but how can we as a small wealthy country with a small trading economy...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: We are facing a profound challenge to the globe. In adopting measures, we cannot be looking over our shoulder and asking what the Arabs or Russians are doing. We have to take responsibility. We have to do it in a way that recognises other pressures, which is why it is important the measures we adopt are consciously least cost, which means least cost in terms of their social impact and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Third Report of the Citizens' Assembly: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2018)

Richard Bruton: I know there is a carbon tax proposal from the Citizens' Assembly. I presume that is being evaluated.

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